Thanks for the quick and detailed reply, Lou!
Lou said:
Well, you'll never get it all from that type of scrap and physical losses are always a part of any process.
Sure. At some point it just doesn’t make sense to try to get more out of a batch, and at a point further, getting the last few molecules of PM is impossible.
I expect that it is cheaper for a refiner to get the first 25% of the PM than the third 25%. Lets say refiner A offers to pay 96% of recovered PM but rushes things thru and only goes after the easy first 25% of the PM in the batch, figuring HE will make more money from the lower expenses and greater volume he can push thru his plant, and refiner B pays only 80% of recovered PM, but eventually gets 75% of the PM in my boards. How would I know that B is a much better deal? I would probably go with A because from what I can see, A is offering the better deal.
(I am going to have to break up my response into segments because I can't get the board to take the whole thing--
I can and did, Lou)
Lou said:
Witnessing is when you, or a representative, travel to the refiner to watch your material be processed. Typically, this means during the weigh-in and sampling process. This can be quick (i.e. a solution sample) or slow (i.e. the material is incinerated, ground into fractions, milled, and samples split from that).
That is what I would want to do. I could at least see if they are putting the appropriate amount of effort into the sample. If the payout is based on an accurate sample and we agree on the weight, it how well they process the rest will not make a difference for me.
Lou said:
Usually the refiner takes 1-2 samples for their labs, a backup sample for umpire (this is if your assay disagrees with theirs beyond a split limit, which is how much you and the refiner agree your results can vary), and one sample for you which they will often send on your behalf to you, or the lab you name. Not all refiners accept all labs, so be sure to check with their payables people to know definitively beforehand.
The samples can be taken from the stuff you just saw being milled, rather than from a melt that may or may not have been aggressively extracted from the stuff you saw being milled, correct?
Lou said:
When I witness for customers or my own material, I am sure to emphasize that the sample be sent expeditiously to the assay house I name and talk to the assayer before hand, so that the paperwork is in order and they are expecting it. Then when settlement time comes, I exchange my assay obtained from the third party assayer (or my own assay if I own the material) with the refiner. If everything looks good, price the metals. If it doesn't look good, you go to umpire and both parties agree that the umpire lab's results are the settlement results and that the cost of the umpire assay will be split between the parties
Going to umpire is inconvenient as it adds extra expense and delay. It's really annoying if you've been advanced by the refiner on preliminary assay and are being assessed a finance charge.
Great stuff to know. I would not have thought of most of that stuff on my own, or at least not till I had a number of bad experiences.
Lou said:
I hope this helps you out.
You have helped me greatly, with knowledge I will use today and knowledge I will use in the future. Thank you, -Paul
