4metals: Please read my post again, looking closely at:
"This is not to be construed as a negative, or that I have a big issue with them but in short I was less than happy with my last transaction."
I suggest that this is far from smearing someone.
But since you have initiated a question of sorts, I shall answer it:
I did what I have done many times in the (admittedly long distant) past which was to send in a bucket full of mostly virgin sterling wire and sheet, almost all of it "prime." This means that it was Sterling purchased either from Hoover & Strong, Leach & Garner, Handy & Harmon, or Rio Grande. In the past it was clippings and stampings, this time It was 22ga coils up to 10ga coils, and 22 to 16guage sheet, prime material or stampings, there was probably less than one ounce that was finished goods with solder. There was about 184 oz troy. Instructions were to refine and return refined value in gold as 1/2 oz eagles, and since they only have 1/2 oz as smallest to "round up" with 24k casting grain, and to charge me, if necessary via my cc to round out the exchange, as I did not want to incur a potential capital gains by receiving any cash. In other words gold for silver.
Their terms have not changed over the years so I expected to see an assayed return of about 89% (there were perhaps ten or so ounces of old ~1800's coin spoons).
Instead of refining H&S paid me "85%" of value as Sterling. But, I was surprised to see a significant extra fee called a "refining." Now the last time I dealt with H&S, they did not have an 85% option and to be fair, my instructions may not have been clear enough. It did bother me that they charged a $100 "refining" fee, as, for instance, other companies that I know that do trade good sterling at 85% don't have any added fee, but this was not a big deal, I was more bothered that I'd be paid 85% for what was almost all virgin sterling, most purchased from H&S.
I called and explained that I had wanted it refined and was disappointed. To my surprise I was told that they would refine the lot which I thought a bit odd since (note: I owned a company called New England Precious Metals during 1979-1980--during the last big boom) once a client was paid, at least in my experience, lots were never sequestered, rather they went into one big lot to be sent to the refiner. Once settled, I can't imagine any refiner or purchaser keeping lots separated.
To my chagrin, a I later received a notice of refining stating that the lot assayed out to 695/1000. Now this means that the overall lot was for less than coin silver which is 800 fine. Since almost all of it was virgin Sterling (the remainder of wire and sheet stock from my now closed company) it seem incredulous to me that it could return a value so low. Keep in mind that this was a two person shop--husband and wife, so there was no employees to do any "clever" cheating.
Now let me add this, for those who are experienced.
If you were to get in a 184 troy ounce lot of wire and sheet, mostly coiled wire that was purportedly sterling, what would you do? I know what I would do, I'd clip a piece or two or three from each coil; I'd cut across sheet, and use nitric to make sure that it wasn't something plated or something odd. Nitric and Sterling results in a cream color. Move to 800 fine and you get a darker color that is very distinctive. Move to less than 800 fine and usually you get either something strange (no reaction, greenish or black). Here is what I have to say: H&S undoubtedly has very skilled "incoming" techs. They were happy enough with the lot to accept it as full .925 (to be paid out as 85%). They were happy enough with the lot in the first instance to overlook the ~10 oz of coin silver spoons. (For those who might not know, coin silver spoons were spoons handmade in the 1800's out of melted coins, they are very distinctive and if from an identifiable maker, sometimes quite valuable--if not, they are just scrap) This means that it was a very nice looking --clean looking lot accepted by their incoming inspector as good sterling.
So how, please tell me, can a very experienced incoming tech make such a mistake that the assay results were far below 800 fine? I say it is not possible. This means that there was over 50 out of the 184 ounces that was absolute garbage, i.e. white brass. But as everyone here knows, white brass tests green instantly and further it does not take much experience to be able to pick out white brass from coin or Sterling especially if it is old enough to show tarnish.
Now can I say for absolute that their assay was wrong? Nope. Can they say for absolute sure that their assay was right. Possibly, but can they say for absolutely sure that something else did not go on here?
Could an employee have made an "exchange" as in "fraud?" Of course--it is possible, but I won't allege it. Based upon my history with H&S, as mentioned elsewhere here, in my opinion they are to be trusted. Yet I find the results to be immensely confusing, enough so to revoke my recommendation.
Now, it's nice to point fingers and say: "gee, when someone is disappointed it's probably that they are confused and maybe don't have a clue." And you are correct.
But...and this is a mighty "but!" There is..."the rest of the story." And it is for this reason that I revoked my truly positive review of H&S, NOT merely because of the assay results.
You see, I have to look at the whole picture, just as you do. Someone is confused and it is either H&S or it is Stevious. I agree that most would say: "Stevious is the one who is confused..." It is easy to assume that the big company is "in the know," and that the "little guy" is not.
But here is the rest of the story, and I'll let you judge "confusion."
At the first instance the payout was made as good sterling at the 85% rate (after deducting the odd refining charge) in gold.
At the second instance, supposedly the lot was, in fact, refined, and found to be pretty much garbage as a lot of sterling goes--and then that too was paid out.
Yes, folk, I was paid twice for the same lot. I was paid in 24kt gold in exchange for the value at 85%. Then I was paid again, by check in the amount of $2533.26. I suppose I could say, "wow, I"m happy," as now were I to cash the check, I would be receiving about what, 1.4-1.5x the value of the silver? Now that is where I point a finger at a company and say: "you have something confusing going on."
I did not want cash, I clearly asked for and received metal for metal, now safely tucked away in my safe deposit box. So I ask, if this company is so confused that they 1) accept goods as "good sterling and pay it out in metal and then: 2) supposedly refine it and find it to be miles away from good sterling and then to: 3) Pay twice. then I would next ask you the question: who do you think is confused.
And no, I have no interest in cashing their check. 1) It would either create a capital gains or force me to file a Schedule C for the year 2) It would be unethical. Clearly H&S is very confused here.
So you see, the revocation of my recommendation is not just about a "poor return" but about something quite a bit deeper.
I'll leave you to make your own judgment.
