scrap on ebay... a rant?

[blueduck]

I recieved a spreadsheet from Catfish the other dayand it is pretty nice to use....

so after looking this afternoon on ebay and plugging in some numbers and pushing the buttons on the old abacus [ok an updated electronic sliderule version thereof] I deciphered that to many people are bidding way to much for the jewelry offered for the most part, many at above spot price, then they have to pay shipping and then they have to turn it and therefore incur shipping again of some type....

So if my math was not off, one in partcualr stood out as they claimed their auction which recieved no bods at the 4 hour left mark for a 41.5 gram of 18k gold started at $600 and they claimed it was below scrap gold pricing.... am i missing something? I undestand Catfish's numbers are at 60% of spot to start over a 30 day average, but even using a full spot price of today at 672 at the that time frame, it seemed if someone was trying to be dishonest or maybe did not have a clue what 75% gold is....

the other auctiuons i looked thru were similar but the bidders had went above what spot was, and a person still had to figure shipping on the karat gold..... I spect the bidders may be speculating but what a way to speculate eh? over bid or over charge in hopes the price continues to rise? and then there are the auctions that have jewels still attached and figured into the weights, broken pieces, consideredd scrap but the uniformed would be thinking grams of gold in the particualr karat, and not figure in the duff, way over priced.... but i guess i could be off again and missing something..... at least the auctions i was looking at separated the different karats.

anyhow as in every other venture i have tried it seems there are always those folks trying to make it big by paying more than the product is worth, in hopes the price rises above their cost enough to make a profit, and they never figure in all the costs added in until to late.... and as soon as they get frustrated or quit a new idiot takes their place and does it all over again cause they been watching and they jump in before it gets to good to be true.... the cycle never ends.... or so it seems.... [that doesnt mean there is not a good deal out there waiting to be made]

Anyhow i was not trying to buy, but i was testing the spreadsheet out to see if i could make it work with what was available and it just seemed there was a theme going on to day, and the full moon was over a couple days ago.

William
Central Idaho

 

[lazersteve]

William,

Don't get discouraged, a deal will come along. Try searching for non-standard descriptions. Also try misspelled descriptions. Everyone is searching for 'gold scrap', 'gold recovery', etc. :wink:

Steve

 

[blueduck]

well i was not really looking today to purchase, i was looking to see what was happening in the way of other people buying and selling. I believe that there are two types of people when it comes to Gold, those who are greedy and the those who take advantage of those who are greedy.... ok maybve there is another type and the few people that are have posted information on this forum are the exception to the above conclusion and those who are like minded but have not found this forum yet..... [believe me i am not trying to make any enemies or really say anything bad about anyone, buyers and sellers alike all are supposed to be over 21 and responsible adults, but can still be caught in a furver of the heat of the moment].

discouraged, I am not, in fact i look at those auctions and have faith that there is much uncovered scrap out there including around these parts of sparsely populated western states... I am most encouraged by the people who have shared in other part so of this forum the techniques, the pitfalls, the hot-to-avoid mistakes, and so forth..... I wont give up, this is by far to interesting to stoop anywhere near short of achieving that first ounce of .9999 pour one day that others talk about..... so I have two goals to meet, the gold recovery and refining techniques to learn and master, and then also apply the same to the PGE's for that is what I originally started out to recover and I will..... and i will let it happen as it does and not force it like as much as I would like to try force, I have come to the realization it is a reliable method you all use and appears easy to learn if one takes the time to understand the in' and outs and safety involved and time it takes to get things together and so forth.

So my rant was more an observation and maybe some folks will disagree or maybe some will want to know catfish's secret excell spreadsheet he figured out......

William

 

[jimdoc]

William,
Here is a calculator that you can use to find out
how much precious metal is in jewelry by weight.
According to this the 41.5 g of 18K is $673.44.
The calculator does not figure the processing cost
so that you will have to figure out a percentage,
and deduct from the results. Jim

http://dendritics.com/scales/metal-calc.asp

 

[blueduck]

Wow

Maybe i did something wrong in using Tom's spreadsheet and calculating it at his 60% of spot, but i did what i thought was the right math and brought it up to 100% and still came up with a number greater than 30% less than that calculator.


OOKOKOKKKKK after pulling out my slide rule, putting fresh batteries in the lectronic calculator and taking the magnet off the steel plate in my head i see what i was doing, i totally used Tom's spreadsheet which is 60% of spot and i did not scale it up like I thought i had. however the folks bidding on most of that so called scrap were still doing so a margin of little if anyprofit after you factor in shipping, twice, and interest on any funds you are using [everyone but me gets interest on their capital it seems, and i have to cough up more so i dont borrow any if at all possible] and with fluctuations in the spot metal market, even if someone is willing to buy at a fairly high rate they still discont the value from spot price and ou have to trust them to weigh it out properly if you cannot be present, ergo if I sold it to someone locally who bought in bulk and shipped out they would likely give about 70-85 % of spot at the most, as the big fellas dont go much over 90% of spot i am told [catfish says his buyer does but i do not know, and i am to far away to meet in person currently to find out].

Anyhow that online calculator is handy and set me to figuring out wher i went wrong, and of course Tom's spreadsheet was not at fault, my math was. Anyhow it was low not high and if a person can buy as low as they can they recovery costs can be met without any frustration on that end being to tight.

Thanks for the link, and for understanding the mini-rant.

William

 

[jimdoc]

William,
Ebay is always a tough place to deal, you always
have people bidding up their own auctions, and
over anxious people who want something more
than it is worth. Sometime you will catch buy now
auctions or others like in the wrong section that
are deals, but for the most part the precious metal
Ebay auctions are really a constantly searched
category.
Dealing with people in person, and being able to
test and weigh the items yourself is always better.
You just need to line up the right customers, by
advertising or word of mouth, and alaways be fair
to people or the word of mouth will work the opposite
way.
I have bought a 5.6g platinum ring on Ebay for $50
buy-now, it was listed as 2 grams and had a picture
of it on a postal scale showing .2 I have yet to find
another deal like that, but it was a buy now auction,
and ones like that are bought within minutes of listing.
You just have to be persistant and patient. Catfish's
spreadsheet shows you what you should pay to be
fair to yourself, with all the factors that can put you
in the hole it is good to know what to pay.
The calculator is just letting you know the metals spot price,
not considering your profit and refining costs, like Catfish's
spread sheet.
Jim

 

[blueduck]

I understand auctions and the heat of the moment of folks who want to get in on a "good sure thing" and those folks will never cease to be for every time one learns by a mistake there is 2 more to take his/her place.

If more folks knew about http://www.goldbay.com/ i suspect that Dave's site would get more traffic and more sellers as well looking the buyers who want the real deal. for the most part they are selling nuggets and gemstones, some placer gold and the site was started out of frustration from ebay.

Ive bought things on ebay, never sold anything i had... wrong stuff wrong time of year i suppose, but then again once I buy something I either use it until it is junk and can not be fixed or used, or I will one day use it so I think..... so goes the curse of a tool collector.

anyhow, It isnt like I aint been around the block a couple times looking for a parking spot.... And I never asked for a deal to good to be true, All i wish for is that people who get the fever take a step back and learn the way things work and take a deep breath cause the world aint going away tomorrow and if it does making unwise decisions aint gonna help them none in the interim. It is the same way I have approached this new found hobby, one step at a time although it may seem like I over stepped and spent money looking for a somewhat of a short cut where i could have saved a bundle and bought the research books and did it in about the same amount of time frame anyway as the folks on this forum have been more help than they will ever know most likely....

William

 

[jimdoc]

I don't think the Ebay situation will change, at
least not to the sane side. You will always have
dreamers and the uneducated buying, and the
uneducated and scammers selling.
You just have to figure it all out. I think finding
local sources and real people to do business
with would be better, depending on your location.
Alot of coin dealers are going out of business
around me because of lack of business, I guess
mostly because of Ebay. Alot of these guys are
older and have no idea about Ebay or even
computers, if they did they could sell off the stuff
they can't sell in their store, and buy what their
buyers are looking for. It would keep them busy
anyway, most of the time they are just sitting around.
But if you could do it from your house with no
overhead of store rental you may be able to do OK.
Jim

 

[catfish]

Hi William:

I just got back from my normal Saturday morning yard sales run. I hit seven yard sales and purchased the following gold items.

Gold price to day is $672.00 or 21.60 per gram my sell price 98%= $21.17 per gram
Cost Sell
53.4 grams of 10 karat gold jewelry at $5.36 per gram total $286.22 $471.41

1.4 grams of 14 karat gold jewelry at $7.50 per gram total $10.50 $17.28

9.1 grams of 18k 1/10 gold filled watch at $3.38. Total $3.38 .68g=14.40

91.0 grams of heavy gold plate (HGE) Jewelry at 1% total $11.70 1.0g=21.17

24.2 grams of .925 silver at .35 per gram total $5.42 $9.90

Estimated total profit on this one buy is about 534.16
-317.22
---------
$216.94

Please note that I will have to refine the gold filled and plated stuff. I get 90% spot for all my silver as long as it is .925.

I also made one more purchase of old gold filled glasses from a flea market.

I bought 11 pairs of gold filled 1/10 12 karat glasses frames. I don’t know the exact weight but I paid $2.00 per pair. I have been getting on the average of about $8 to $9.00 worth of gold from one pair average. I expect to clear about $75.00 on the glasses.

I purchased all the gold and silver items at 60% today’s 30 day running average 0f $666.50 per oz. except the glasses. I just made the lady an offer. I was prepared to go as high as $5.00 per pair. As my good friend Harold sez “A deal is a deal”.

You mentioned that you still had concerns on selling your gold. I talked to my buyer and she said that if you wanted to call her that would be fine and she herself would tell you what you would get. William, I must caution you again, when you sell gold, it has to produce the expected amount of gold per karat. In short, if the gold is solid karat gold it will produce the expected amount. If you don’t want to do that, then I will be happy to buy all the gold (providing it is pure karat gold) you can sell me at 90% spot of 30 day running average. I will then resell to my buyer at 98% daily spot.

Seriously if you want me to help you on this just say so. I don’t mind. I enjoy it and it is a wonderful hobby. Buying and selling gold is about as much fun as refining gold.

Catfish

 

[lazersteve]

Nice haul Tom,

I went last weekend and someone else had beat me to the punch. How early do you go out to the garage sales?

Steve

 

[goldsilverpro]

Tom,

How do you make out on the HGE stuff? All marked HGE? Looks like you're paying about $60/pound for it. Sounds pretty good. When new, it runs 100 micro". Another marking to look for is "Karatclad". It also is 100 micro".

 

[catfish]

Hi Criss:

On the Heavy gold plate, I have found that I figure the gold yield to be about 1% or so. I weigh it and get an expected yield and compute backwards to 60% of yield.

This guy was pretty savvy on his gold but not quite savvy enough. He owns several flea market places and collected this gold during his buys of old auctions and etc. He knew that the gold should be marked, but what he didn’t understand was that it can’t be marked RPG, GHE, GF, and 1/10th and 1/20th gold filled or etc... He thought it just had to be marked 10, 14 or 18 karat. He had an 18 karat gold filled watch case and he thought it was 18 karat gold. After explaining the difference, he agreed.

I tell all the guys, never turn down gold filled or heavy gold plated. That sure makes good scrap for refining. I have made a lot of money on this type of scrap. I have just about stopped buying any thing from eBay. I bid on gold filled only and sometimes I get it and sometimes I don’t, no problem. I am absolutely amazed at some of the buyers on eBay on how much they will pay for scrap. Either they are very stupid or they know something I don’t. Maybe it’s me. I don’t know. I just know what works for me.

Steve, I look on the internet on Thursday night or early Friday morning and look at the classifieds on all the auctions and yard sales. They normally will say what time they start. I try to be there very early. As Aflac sez “the early bird gets the worm”. Sometimes I will go to an address on Friday or Thursday before their sale and talk to them. All they can do is ask you to leave and come back. It works sometime too. I also have plenty of professional business cards with my cell phone number, that I give every person I run into, that list everything I buy, such as scrap gold jewelry, class rings, wedding ring sets, broken chains, ear rings, gold/silver coins and anything gold or silver, old watches, and old gold filled glasses.

Catfish

 

[aflacglobal]

Catfish is exactly right. I use to eat and live yard sales and flea markets in past. Not really for gold, but i have passed a ton of in now that i think of it. The best time to get there is when they are just setting up their stuff. Now that it is hot during the day, dam hot. lol
Most people start early about 6 am, and are usually sold out of the good stuff by 8-8:30 am. After that you are just picking over bones.

 

[blueduck]

Wow catfish

I had not thought of eyeglass frames as being a source of yellow metal and yet ive worn eyeglasses for about 35 of my 44 years. I know several folks who more than likely have a pair or two of old frames they may part with for me to recover....

When it comes to hallmarks i get lost as well, but that will not be for long, I just need to start figuring it all out and write down my own notes and then put them to memory and test out what I learn..... watches are one area i have no clue in as far as "gold filled" and what might be in the works that is worth keeping..... I know some old watches are worth a premium even if they dont work, and some are not all that valuable except for the gold they contain.

anyhow like I posted above a couple times, i believe i made a mistake in calculations in the number game, but even after looking again at a few of the auctions the margins were just not there if the spot metal ends up going down in the not to distant future, and to pay out spot would have to go up.

As for dealers, I know in the arena of precious metals and gemstones there are very reputable dealers, and only a few bad ones that foks can find out about, And when the time comes I appreciate that you can help me out one way or another.... and it has just been hard for me to trust folks these past few years in many areas of business, most folks want to make as much as they can off everyone, and they really dont care what they do as long as it makes a buck in their pockets, they move one to the next "victim". I am not like that, I just seem to come across these types of people way to often to have a "blind trust" for anyone anymore it seems.... though I have made and will make exceptions, after all if a fella dont take a chance He wont do much in the way of business or learning.... and I hope this works into a nice business from the hobby I can see this is going to be [the yard sale part will make my wife kinda happy, and probably my mother too as they will be on the lookout for the items we can process].

thanks for the help, support and information everyone is sharing, it seems just about everyone has something to offer that is valuable in the learning arena!!

Old dogs and mountain men can learn new tricks, but sometimes it takes more than a doggie biscuit!!

William
Central Idaho mountains

 

[aflacglobal]

When it comes to hallmarks i get lost as well, but that will not be for long, I just need to start figuring it all out and write down my own notes

Just a quick note from dealing with gold internationally. Their are many different hallmarking systems in place, in many different countries. Not all of these are the same. Some countries don't even have standards. Some for instance require gold to be marked 24 kt to be at least .995 ( US )
While others require it to be .999 to be marked 24 kt. So the country of origin for the jewelry may come into play. This is a very slight difference if marked in a reputable hallmarking system. What you have to watch for are countries that have questionable standards. Their they can be swings of 1-2 %. Sometime even scarier. :shock:

 

[talalstuvs]

Hi William:

I just got back from my normal Saturday morning yard sales run. I hit seven yard sales and purchased the following gold items.

Gold price to day is $672.00 or 21.60 per gram my sell price 98%= $21.17 per gram
Cost Sell
53.4 grams of 10 karat gold jewelry at $5.36 per gram total $286.22 $471.41

1.4 grams of 14 karat gold jewelry at $7.50 per gram total $10.50 $17.28

9.1 grams of 18k 1/10 gold filled watch at $3.38. Total $3.38 .68g=14.40

91.0 grams of heavy gold plate (HGE) Jewelry at 1% total $11.70 1.0g=21.17

24.2 grams of .925 silver at .35 per gram total $5.42 $9.90

Estimated total profit on this one buy is about 534.16
-317.22
---------
$216.94

Please note that I will have to refine the gold filled and plated stuff. I get 90% spot for all my silver as long as it is .925.

I also made one more purchase of old gold filled glasses from a flea market.

I bought 11 pairs of gold filled 1/10 12 karat glasses frames. I don’t know the exact weight but I paid $2.00 per pair. I have been getting on the average of about $8 to $9.00 worth of gold from one pair average. I expect to clear about $75.00 on the glasses.

I purchased all the gold and silver items at 60% today’s 30 day running average 0f $666.50 per oz. except the glasses. I just made the lady an offer. I was prepared to go as high as $5.00 per pair. As my good friend Harold sez “A deal is a deal”.

You mentioned that you still had concerns on selling your gold. I talked to my buyer and she said that if you wanted to call her that would be fine and she herself would tell you what you would get. William, I must caution you again, when you sell gold, it has to produce the expected amount of gold per karat. In short, if the gold is solid karat gold it will produce the expected amount. If you don’t want to do that, then I will be happy to buy all the gold (providing it is pure karat gold) you can sell me at 90% spot of 30 day running average. I will then resell to my buyer at 98% daily spot.

Seriously if you want me to help you on this just say so. I don’t mind. I enjoy it and it is a wonderful hobby. Buying and selling gold is about as much fun as refining gold.

Catfish

hello
where i could find ur spread sheet of buying gold karat ?

 

[blueduck]

gosh i love these 5 year old threads brought back to life!!!

I had the "catfish" spreadsheet on a hard drive that locked up on me and never got the opportunity to put it on a back up disk.... so i cant help out either.... but it is fairly simple and there are others around that you input the spot price of gold and the grams weight of specific karat.... and it computes for ya.... i dont have those links handy but ive seen em.... but i still have a calculator and can work things in my head perty good.... and i stay on the low side just to be safe... and have put my average out to at least 90 days on gold now instead of a 60 day average..... again to be on the safe side.... though with gold pushing the $1800.00 US mark again the people get tighter that are wanting to sell for everything they can git.

ive done alright on some things the past 5 years, but i like a wholelot of folks got lost in the dust with the big advertisers getting folks to think they were gonna get rich quick from sending in their gld items and getting back about 40-50% of the value, yet wanting 75-85% of spot value from me..... i passed and went to buying some silver coins for awhile and other old numismatics coins while folks got what they deserved for their gold..... i still get offered placer gold from the mining community but again they think its worth more than it is, and if they offer sell it right on eBay® they an git more than spot for it, ive seen that happen over and over and over.... about the only time i will pay more than want is if i need some placer gold to teach a class and have refined everything i had sitting around.....

William
Idaho
Digg It Prospecting Supply, LLC

 

[jimdoc]

You can try Husker's;
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3354

Jim

 

[blueduck]

Thanks jimdoc..... i will be putting this on the back up drive and maybe even on another drive or three as well.....lol

William
Idaho