Selective precipitation.

[Aristo]

I have done a search relating to the above subject with respect to Ph adjustment and not much was found.
I am attempting to find more information, be it from experiences or from scholarly work that may enlighten and further elaborate on the subject of selective precipitation of precious metals using variable Ph.
I believe its a technique that is used or was practiced in the mining industry. However, it appears to be now limited to dropping heavy metals from waste streams.
Any relevant input is appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Lou]

http://web.deu.edu.tr/atiksu/ana52/ychem02.html



If you look at the ones that have minima fixed around given pH value (namely, 7 or so like Cr(III) ), those would be amphoteric hydroxides. Shifted to the left on the pH scale, acidic, to right, basic. Etc.

 

[Gratilla]

Hi Aristo,

I'm surprised to see you back here after your broken promises.

Perhaps you'd like to explain to the members why your segue into a request for investment after showing high values in your (imaginary?) ore was not an attempt at a scam.

I'm all ears.

 

[Aristo]

http://web.deu.edu.tr/atiksu/ana52/ychem02.html



If you look at the ones that have minima fixed around given pH value (namely, 7 or so like Cr(III) ), those would be amphoteric hydroxides. Shifted to the left on the pH scale, acidic, to right, basic. Etc.

Lou, thank you, much appreciated. I am likely going to have to read the paper a few times before I pass it on to my techs.

 

[Anonymous]

Ouch that's a tough accusation Aristo.

Edit: I meant that towards Gratilla not Aristo as politely pointed out to me.

 

[Gratilla]

Correct Spaceships. I hadn't intended to waste any (more) of my time on this, but the silence is deafening. And seeing as this forum has been used to "establish his credentials" and solicit his mark(s), a heads up is deserved.

Anyone familiar with profiling would've/could've seen something like this coming.
- the name
- the photo
- his meetings and exchanges with members who claim him to be a nice and polite guy [to establish credibility?]. I have no reason not to believe the members comments; in all our exchanges, Aristo WAS nice and polite.
- his unnecessary allusion to "[his] techs" in his msg above. (I've seen no evidence of techs and if they exist, I would've fired them long ago.)

Our exchanges (phone and email) were anything but illuminating; virtually no clear information offered, few questions answered and sections of reports claimed to be from McGill Metallurgical (@McGill University?) poorly written, full of unexplained codes and lacking any useful information - such as to deserve dismissal IMO. Amusingly, a large part of one of the docs was taken over with, not very professionally, complaining about Aristo (not his real name). I suggested that this lack of usable input was intentionally intended to protect proprietary information and offered to sign a non-disclosure. I also mentioned that there was little more I could do until I received the promised Fedexed sample. (1kg requested, 5gk offered and promised multiple times.)

I intended to attack this problem on two fronts:

1) In addition to taking a look at the sample in my own modest lab, send a sample to a Professor of Mineralogy, published translator of Amman's work, published author in his own right on topics relating to PM refining and President Emeritus of the Korean Institute of Science and Technology with access to all sorts of expensive analytical equipment. Being a life-long friend of my Korean colleague over here (J), he was only too happy to help.

2) Sell the ore. J. my Korean colleague, had been exporting gold ore (20 containers / week of min 9 ppm at the height of the gold price, higher spec since the price collapse). This abruptly ceased in January when a provision of the 2009 Indonesian Mining Law kicked in at the beginning of 2014 effectively banning the export of unprocessed ore. J had proven buyers in place and was obviously interested in ore that Aristo was claiming to fire assay at over 0.9 oz/t and cons averaging approx 10 oz/t, over 20 oz/t max! J requested "an Analysis Report from Intertech, SGS or similar" which would be necessary in any event for export to Korea.

Aristo admitted that selling the ore would be regarded as a solution, I would get my money and the forum would get 10%, as promised.

However, things began to cool after I questioned his comments soliciting funding for a facility to take advantage of findings that had been "hugely successful". I hadn't been made aware of any solutions or of "hugely successful" findings! Soon after - silence.

Needless to say I haven't received any ore samples, I haven't received any Analysis Reports and the forum has not received its 10%.

All the above is verifiable and, I believe, well within Harold's guidelines.

 

[Aristo]

I was hesitant to get drawn into this nonsense, but upon getting good advice, I felt I should enlighten the forum on the baseless and rather strange accusations.

Gratilla,

You have made some foolish and accusatory remarks while pretending to be some sort of victim. I caution you that you have rudely hijacked the thread that I initiated, even though I politely asked that all responses be related to the topic. In the future, should you desire to enter into puerile gossip and slander, take it somewhere else. There is a thread about member's "handles" and avatars, go discuss your obsession with mine over there.
I owe you nothing, except perhaps a supply of Midol.
I have been polite to you and the moment you stepped out of line with fraudulent suggestions, I ignored you. You pretended to be someone you are not and the only one losing anything here is the person paying long distance phone charges to listen to bilge.
I have no further interest in you nor your boyfriend in Korea.

Forum Members,

I had posted a request for paid help on the forum and this gentleman "gratilla" was among those that responded. Initially I called him doctor as I felt from his haughty and arrogant behaviour, he might be poe.
I engaged him on the telephone (he might be somewhere in Indonesia) and I spent at least two hours with him on the phone trying to get an understanding as to whom I was getting involved with. There were elements and attitudes that provoked a certain apprehension that I need not touch on at this forum.
My basic assessment was this gentleman did not display any talent for the job that he wanted to undertake. He talked a lot about the obvious and it was clear he had no particular training in dealing with ores and concentrates. I decided that I would spend $ and send him a sample of the ore that was being discussed anyway as it was apparent that he likely needed some source of money. There was a delay on my part as I had travelled for a week to the Western States.

I spoke to "gratilla" upon my return as I wanted to keep him in the loop and also to find out if he needed the sample material crushed or uncrushed. It was during this conversation that he mentioned his "friend" in Korea and that would be the person handling the material.
I mentioned that I was in the process of concentrating another ore in Az and he immediately picked up on it with the view that his "buddy" would be interested in buying it. Upon further questioning regarding the cost of freight and logistics vs the economic viability of low grade ores, he alluded that there was a "way" of getting low grade material in and out of certain countries. As he outlined how this was done, it smelled quite fraudulent to me and I decided to end my relationship with "gratilla".

"Gratilla" might be "all ears" but when I hear things that in my opinion ,are fraudulent and does not conform to the laws of the USA and Canada, I put on my running shoes and I am "all feet".
I believe that if "gratilla" needed clarity or closure on the matter, a simple message or an email would have sufficed.

 

[Anonymous]

Cheers Aristo. Fair play for answering that.

Considering that the thread has already been well and truly hijacked.....

Gratilla, is that a fair assessment because that's a pretty tough accusation you've thrown out there in public. It might as well be dealt with here and now as opposed to buried, and it's a case of "no answer is worse than an answer" in these cases.

Regards

Jon

 

[nickvc]

I'll post my view. Aristo seems to be a well connected and honest member who posts when he wants to say something worthwhile or has goods to trade, his attitude towards the law I commend, if others disagree then please feel free to disagree openly, we are under the cosh here as the items and material we discuss have considerable value and will attract interest from most government agencies that collect revenues for the various governments we are liable to be taxed for.
We do not encourage or condone evasion of taxes,we do try to be open and honest to the world and supply information and help to all, but we cannot or will not be a forum to avoid the fair taxes and tarrifs that governments demand.
We are men and women of science not tax advisers or scam artists, try elsewhere if that's your need.

 

[Gratilla]

Aristo, Your response is perfectly understandable ... for someone caught with their pants down.

Forum members, consider for a moment that you had a valuable (refractory) ore that had puzzled your tech employees[sic] and retained expert consultant [sic] such that you felt the need to publicly offer $20,000 to anyone with a solution, wouldn't you jump at the chance of having it examined by a Professor and expert in the field with access to appropriate analytical equipment without obligation and/or wouldn't you jump at the chance of profitably selling this problem ore to an interested confirmed buyer.

Me too. In fact I would go further and:
- promptly provide accurate relevant information,
- professionally complete calls at the pre-arranged times, and
- return emails, as promised,
- ship samples and provide tracking number(s), as repeatedly promised and
- promptly provide Analysis Report(s), as promised.

None of this happened. What did happen was that I was offered a "hugely successful" [Aristo's exact words] investment opportunity, which I ignored and it was at this point that communication started breaking down.

I think everybody can recognize the homophobia and cheap emotional sarcasm of the last post for what it is and agree that it isn't worth getting drawn in, however, I do take extreme exception at having both myself and a friend groundlessly and libelously accused of being involved in illegal and fraudulent activity. My Korean colleague runs a successful freight forwarding company with offices in Jakarta and Seoul and associates in Hong Kong, Singapore and China. And has long experience at finding extremely competitive tariffs for international container freight.

I publicly challenge you, Aristo, to prove your allegations of fraud and illegal activities. I challenge you to tell us of the ways you were told "of getting low grade material in and out of certain countries" illegally and fraudulently. What you claim is diversionary unadulterated fabrication, nothing more.

While on the subject of law, under International Commercial Law (and I would imagine under US and Canadian law), a public offer of, say, $20,000 for services and an acceptance of the offer would constitute a legally binding agreement irrespective of whether it was in writing. Failure by one party to provide adequate information and promised samples for successful completion, and/or acceptance that a sale would also be accepted as successful performance, but failure to provide Analysis Report(s) in good faith would be tantamount to constructive breach.

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to provide a full name and valid address so that we can close this out on an equal footing.

 

[Aristo]

"Gratilla",

I am quite puzzled as to what it is you want, besides your feeble attempts at denigration. I chose not to engage you nor send any sample material to you as I found you incapable of offering the scope of solution that I am looking for. You probably sensed this and is the likely reason you suggested to get your so called friend ( no homophobia intended) involved. I briefly considered sending you samples when you hinted at monetary considerations, but when you spoke of the "special" ways you had to buy , sell and and transport ore ( 9ppm!!) across the ocean... in containers!!, red flags went up. My intent was to find an honest and resourceful person to assist in resolving an ore concentrate. I have no interest to sell you nor your friend anything. I would prefer to confine my business to those who are cognizant and respectful of international law. Do you understand?

I will make this as simple and categorical as possible for you.
I posted in the help section of the forum because I needed help. I was and am prepared to pay for the help.
You applied as a possible candidate to help in exchange for monetary benefits.
I evaluated you by telephone and for reasons mentioned, you were subsequently found unsuitable for that which you applied.
I rejected your offer and moved on.
I expect you to move on as well.
If you feel you are owed something, enlighten me and send me an invoice.
Otherwise, please stop running behind me with silly rhetoric.

You can challenge all you want, but you know what was said on the phone and I know what was said. I suppose there is good reason why it was said on the phone and not emailed. I don't make nor condone libellous remarks, I state facts. Dont ever misquote me or quote me out of context. I certainly will not get into details on an open foum and further involve myself in your dealings.
I would most certainly consider the opportunity to have an expert look into the matter of ore resolution. Recall I said I needed qualified help? However, I have absolutely no interest in such help when there are certain strings attached.
I provided you with confidential and proprietary information which you have had little regards for as you didnt find it "illuminating". Yet you are pursuing the possibility of getting a sample sent to you. It is quite confusing.
I have no reason nor intent to publish personal information on an internet forum at your whim, no matter how kind I am. I have no idea what equal footing you are talking about.Would you like to know what size shoe I wear?
In closing, I reiterate: You were found unsuitable to receive sample material for reasons mentioned and I would prefer to have no further contact or discussion with you on the matter.I urge you to cease and desist from whatever practices you might be involved in and I caution you that everyone is accountable to international law. I ask that you appropriately delete all information, proprietary or otherwise, that was sent to you by email.
I expect you to apologize to the forum for hijacking an active thread even though you were asked not to do so.

Good luck and goodbye.

 

[Lou]

Gratilla certainly will apologize, as this thread has been derailed with something that had very little business being brought up in this thread. Still unsure what the complaint is, but sounds like injured pride.

As for the ore in question--if it can't be made to fire assay, forgettaboutit.


All sorts of times we see people with this refractory ore which no one can process. Data based on spurious application of techniques ill-suited to the material. If it has values in it, they can be accessed one way or another. But will it be cost-effective?

 

[butcher]

This forum was not intended as a place to do business, or to air your dirty laundry.

It was intended as a place where someone could learn a skill of recovery and refining, where a member who had experienced in this skill could share his knowledge to help other members learn, or where members can help other members in their pursuit of knowledge in this art, or share their knowledge.

In fact doing business on the forum has been reluctantly permitted, with limitations, with allowing it only to the extent of helping another member.

Aristo's request for help with this ore with such a high prize attached was deemed as not a good idea in the beginning, in fact was advised against.

I believe both members; owe an apology to the forum and its members, for this disturbance of the forum, bringing accusations of a personal, and business transaction, into this forum as it has been done here.

It sounds like the deal is off, between these two members; the forum is not the place to continue this discussion, or attack another member, or to pursue this...

Using this forum to attack another member with accusations, or attacking a member personally, will not be permitted, if there is proof of wrongdoing and it is brought forth to help, or protect other members now that is totally different thing altogether.



Aristo, and Gratilla can discuss this between themselves if that is what they wish, or just move on, but fighting it out on the forum is not the place, they can apologize to each other if they choose, that is up to them.

But I do believe they both owe members of this forum an apology, (if not an apology to each other), for disturbance of the peace of our forum.

And they should cease this tick for tat here on the forum.
And move on.

 

[Gratilla]

Lou, Butcher, I agree with you, but not completely. The deeper the hole that Aristo has dug for himself, the further this has gone beyond "circumstantial" and "balance of probabilities" and is now at the stage of "beyond reasonable doubt".

(Lou, the main complaint was being victim of a suspected classic bait and switch tactic. I was invited into PM to help resolve refractory ore issues, asked for a background and personal details for shipping the sample. I provided these and all I got in exchange was a suspicious first name. Subsequently, probably around the time it was decided I was too thick to even pick my nose, it was decided that I was thick enough to fall for the switch to a "hugely successful" investment opportunity. Details in our soon to be published exchanges referred to below.)

A handshake and a pat on the back is no longer sufficient. Look at the above exchanges. I have been straight-forward and reasonably polite. Aristo has been cynically evasive and abusive. (Probably in the expectation of escaping by being banned.)

A proper resolution is now necessary in order to re-establish the integrity of the forum. How do we do this? I sugget that I make a copy of all our (mine and Aristo's) exchanges available to one (or more) moderator(s) and let them decide who is telling the truth.

A sample from one of my emails:

============= 8 May 2014
However, before we talk consider:

1) I can not understand why you find the garbage from McGill satisfactory.
2) Why I'm sent a mixed bag of (contradictory) photos without title or explanation.
3) The only thing that makes any sense is that you're trying to replicate the success of a Nevada company in extracting PMs from fly ash; the fly ash being (still) freely available on the U.S. market. This "hidden gold" shielded by amorphous silica is something I've been looking at for some time and I know pretty much exactly the process the Nevada company is using.
4) If I'm wrong on this, then the only other reason you're tight with information is that you consider it valuable knowhow for which I'd have no problems with a non-disclosure.

How about we get these few points clarified in emails before we talk?
=============

You'll note:
1) I'm pretty brusque. It's clear that by this time I'm fairly certain my time is being wasted.
2) It's clear I'm pretty insistent on email over phone; in complete contradiction to what Aristo is claiming.
3) My suggest for a non-disclosure. Aristo rejected this abrogating any expectation of confidentiality for our exchanges. I can do with them as I wish.

I ask that you appropriately delete all information, proprietary or otherwise, that was sent to you by email.

LOL Of course you do Aristo. You wish!

A transcript of our phone conversations would also be quite illuminating, wouldn't it.

BTW, to show that I am not vindictive, I'm still willing to send a sample of the problem ore to the Professor I mentioned. However, I would now, justifiably I think, require that what has already been agreed to be put in writing and payments (including 10% for the forum) to be placed in escrow. A moderator can adjudicate whether agreement terms have been fulfilled, or not.

BTW, I believe I'm guilty of thread drift, for which I apologise.

 

[butcher]

Gratilla,
Thank you for your apology of thread drift, but I feel this whole matter is more of a disturbance to the forum than just shifting the conversation topic.

If you feel you have further bussiness, I suggest doing it with Aristo in private, that is if he will work with you, not here on the forum, where all this is doing is creating a problem on the forum.

I do not like getting involved with others problems , or involved in their bussiness deals, and do not care to get involved in this one, but I do wish to see this forum run smoothly, with members helping others.

 

[goldsilverpro]

I totally agree with butcher. Enough is enough. Settle it among your selves in private. This is a warning,

 

[Lou]

Yes, perhaps it's best to just terminate this thread with the understanding it won't be brought back up again.