Silver from xray flim

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No way!!!!!!...Nickvc has answered masterfully!!!!!!.

Let us take a look to the films.Are they silver halide type or silver behenate type?,let us find out:Take some bleach(like CLOROX) and dip one of those films in it...if black stain goes away then they are silver halide type and the problem seems to be low temperature(as Nickvc has well stated),if black stain remains then films are silver behenate and this is the reason that oxalic acid process does not work,besides,silver behenate films type contains less than 1 gr of silver/kilo.

Nda20,where do you live?

Nickvc,I send you a big hug.

Kindest regards.

Manuel
 
Thank you Nickvc and Manuel

The films are silver halide types. I have checked this by clorox. When I dipped one of that films in clorox bleach, the black stain gone away.

By the way, I used steel container to heat the oxalic solution, is that wrong?

I will repeat the process with increasing the temperature.
 
I have repeated the process with increasing the temperature as Nickvc said. I have succeeded.

But how long I have to wait for settle down the mud? It looks very slow!
 
A colloid has been formed,probably due to organic contamination,the mud should precipitate pretty soon,anyway,you have got to destroy the colloid by boiling the solution for half an hour.

Take a look at your original films before processing,they must be perfectly clean,if it is necesary then make a prewash with tap water.

Keep us posted about your progress.

Kindest regards.

Manuel
 
Thank you Manuel

The films are clean. But may be the contamination occurred because I re-heated the solution and submerged the same films.

Other thing I have to say is that I used steel container for heating!

My best regards
 
Good picture brother , for me i was processing using NAOH process , but i was dealing with industrial x ray flim , if u go through my post you may have a look at it, as for me , naoh process is quite easy for me as there is no need for heating the solution all you do it in a couple of hours ( depends upon the quantity ), try for one film with a spoon of naoh and half or 1 litre water , see that gelatin the layer removes it should , :p
 
Thank you Sena

I tried the caustic soda process long time ago. The problem with that process is the melting.

I get difficulty to melt the sludge. Therefor I stopped that process.
 
mda20 said:
Thank you Sena

I tried the caustic soda process long time ago. The problem with that process is the melting.

I get difficulty to melt the sludge. Therefor I stopped that process.
Click to expand...

Dear friend have you incinerated the sludge before melting ?
 
Yes dear friend. After filtering the material, the silver compound was heated in an iron vessel until all the gases were removed. Then taken to melting.
 
mda20 said:
Yes dear friend. After filtering the material, the silver compound was heated in an iron vessel until all the gases were removed. Then taken to melting.
Click to expand...

it should look like this after incinerating...
 

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To my friends Manuel and Nickvc,

I would like to inform you that the sludge has been settled now. I have not done any thing, just waited.

Now I will go to dry step. Is it good to put it under the sun?

My regards.
 
mda20 said:
No, what I got was black in color.
Click to expand...

It sounds like the difference is that you just heated it to drive off the gases (leaving black carbon in the material) whereas Sena incinerated it and burned out all of the organics/carbon to a white ash. Huge difference. In my experience, it should be incinerated before melting. You must get rid of the carbon first.
 
Thank you goldsilverpro.

My aim is to dry the sludge, so the result is black powder.
 
mda20 said:
Thank you goldsilverpro.

My aim is to dry the sludge, so the result is black powder.
Click to expand...

Have you tried melting the black powder? If so, does it give you better results than direct melting the sludge? I think the melting would go even smoother and you would get better yields by incinerating to white ash before melting. Otherwise, the black carbon will pick up silver and will tend to float on top of the melt. You will also likely end up with more silver BBs in the slag.
 
Actually I get difficulty in melting because I have to add the following:
Sodium Nitrate %100
Borax %50
Soda Ash %25

Sometimes I succeed but mostly the crucible was damaged.
 
mda20 said:
Actually I get difficulty in melting because I have to add the following:
Sodium Nitrate %100
Borax %50
Soda Ash %25

Sometimes I succeed but mostly the crucible was damaged.
Click to expand...

I use generally equal volume of Borax to that Incinerated Silver sludge, with oxy acetylene torch .its easy to melt reduces the heat consumed swell as the time.
 
mda20 said:
Actually I get difficulty in melting because I have to add the following:
Sodium Nitrate %100
Borax %50
Soda Ash %25

Sometimes I succeed but mostly the crucible was damaged.
Click to expand...

The sodium nitrate is needed to oxidize the carbon but this reaction destroys crucibles. If you were to incinerate to white ash (no black) before melting, as Sena has done, you wouldn't need any sodium nitrate, at all, and, therefore, you wouldn't damage the crucible nearly as much. You could also, probably, cut down on the borax and soda ash. The only purpose of the soda ash is to convert any silver halides to silver metal. This reaction can also damage the crucible, somewhat, but, if you are stripping with sodium hydroxide, any silver halides should already be converted to silver oxide, which will be converted to silver metal by the heat alone. However, just in case there are still some silver halides still present, I prefer to add some soda ash. If you were to incinerate to a white ash before melting, I would first try a flux mixture of about 25% borax and 5 to 10% soda ash. It is always best to thoroughly blend the flux with the pulverized incinerated white ash before melting.

If you are stripping with bleach or 10% HCl, you end up with 100% silver chloride and this will require lots of soda ash to convert it to silver metal and, in the best case, you possibly won't get it all converted. In large quantities, this reaction will destroy crucibles very quickly. Probably, of all the various ways to strip film, any method using chlorine or chlorides is the worst. It strips quickly with no heat, but you definitely will pay the piper down the line.

If you are using oxalic acid, as in Manuel's process, I would ask him as to how to flux it. I would guess that all it would take is some borax and, maybe, a little soda ash, just to make sure.
 

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