Sodium Metabisulfite is hard to Get in norway...

[adrianbjorvatn]

So its real hard to find a place to buy SMB in Norway, so i Wonder if a can use zinc power instead in Aqua regia....?

Or what Else can i use? Got some Sodium Carbonate and Sodium Sulfate

 

[Lino1406]

Another reducer like ferrous sulphate...

 

[goldandsilver123]

Are you sure it's hard to find?

Sodium metabisulfite is a common food preservative.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

So its real hard to find a place to buy SMB in Norway, so i Wonder if a can use zinc power instead in Aqua regia....?

The reason we use sodium metabisulfite, or SO2, or ferrous sulfate, or other preferred reducing agents is that they are pretty selective at reducing just our target metals. Zinc, on the other hand, will precipitate almost every metal that is in solution.

If you dissolve some gold that is mixed with copper, iron, cadmium, nickel, tin, lead, etc., when you use a selective precipitant it will just reduce the gold (or nearly so). When you use zinc, it will precipitate just about every metal, leaving you pretty much where you started.

As goldandsilver123 suggested, you might be able to find it sold as a food preservative. Another good possibility is to check with any shops that sell beer or wine making supplies, where it is sold as a sanitizing agent.

Dave

 

[4metals]

Another thing, a down side to some, sodium metabisulfite smells terrible and if tou get a whiff you will remember it. Ferrous sulfate is much less offensive if you use it. There are threads on the forum about using it, just make sure that the reagent you get is slightly green and crystalline.

 

[adrianbjorvatn]

The reason we use sodium metabisulfite, or SO2, or ferrous sulfate, or other preferred reducing agents is that they are pretty selective at reducing just our target metals. Zinc, on the other hand, will precipitate almost every metal that is in solution.

If you dissolve some gold that is mixed with copper, iron, cadmium, nickel, tin, lead, etc., when you use a selective precipitant it will just reduce the gold (or nearly so). When you use zinc, it will precipitate just about every metal, leaving you pretty much where you started.

As goldandsilver123 suggested, you might be able to find it sold as a food preservative. Another good possibility is to check with any shops that sell beer or wine making supplies, where it is sold as a sanitizing agent.

Dave

Thanks, for a good answer

 

[adrianbjorvatn]

Are you sure it's hard to find?

Sodium metabisulfite is a common food preservativeyeah

yeah i know... called and asked around! gonna check out the beer shop tomorrow

 

[orvi]

yeah i know... called and asked around! gonna check out the beer shop tomorrow

You can also use any other sulfite that is soluble in water, like sodium sulfite. It is available in shops that sell chemicals for developing classic photographs - scarce to find them nowdays, but here it is available in few places, when you buy it using your ID. Another name for metabisulfite is "pyrosulfite" - somewhat historical, but in wine making supplies shop here, it is still called pyrosulfite, even nowdays

Ferrous sulfate could be purchased from local gardening store as moss killing chemical. Just make sure it isn´t "rusted" - yellowish translucent solid with rusty hint isn´t very good. It should be green coloured. Altough, you can purify it by dissolving the stuff in minimal water and filter the oxidized ferric oxohydroxides out. Then you can use the filtered solution to precipitate gold. It will be less effective when partially oxidized, but it will still work.

 

[butcher]

Copperas, ferrous sulfate, iron II sulfate, FeSO4, green vitriol, is easy to make from dilute 10% H2SO4 sulfuric acid (sulfuric acid can be found in automotive battery acid or some drain cleaners) and Iron metal (a good source of soft iron is from your old transformers, the iron laminates from the electronic scrap pile).

You can use crystals of copperas to test for gold in the solution, or you can use your homemade copperas to selectively precipitate gold from the solution.

copperas is a reducing agent. helpful in our processes, for example, besides reducing gold selectively from a gold chloride solution, copperas is also helpful as a reducing agent in solution where it is helpful in reducing the free nitric acid in solution to nitrogen monoxide gas and or the chlorine gas to chlorides, heat is helpful as always in removing gases from the solution...

6 FeSO4 + 3 H2SO4 + 2 HNO3 --> 3 Fe2(SO4)3 + 4 H2O + 2 NO

6 FeSO4 + 3 Cl2 → 2 Fe2(SO4)3 + 2 FeCl3

 

[Yggdrasil]

So its real hard to find a place to buy SMB in Norway, so i Wonder if a can use zinc power instead in Aqua regia....?

Or what Else can i use? Got some Sodium Carbonate and Sodium Sulfate

Where in Norway do you live?
If I was home I could send you some, but bad luck, won't be back until summer.
I have not found it in small amounts so I bought 25Kg and shared with a friend.
I'll ask if he still have.

 

[GuyGuyGuythe1st]

eBay, Amazon, Alibaba? You can’t order it online? Or is it a regulated chemical in Norway? If not, I do sell it in bulk.

 

[eaglekeeper]

If you have a home brewing store in your area you can get SMB. I believe they call them campden tablets, they are used to kill off unwanted wild yeast prior to pitching your yeast. You can also find it in a store that sells canning supplies (I don't no the name of the product).

 

[shruli]

I have only been at this a couple of years but doing pretty well thanks to advice & information available on this site. Added some pics of a recent project of plated & rolled (filled) gold jewellery. Nightmare trying to get nitric in the UK so I only use poor mans AR. Using really weak HCL & small increments of saltpetre on heat, the solution eats away at the base metals leaving almost all the gold & easily get back any tiny amount of gold that escapes in waste.
I'm no pro at this, so any tips to improve will always be welcome.
To the point of the thread! I read on here, the for & against using ascorbic acid (vitamin c). Tried it myself & now I don't use anything else. Every time, there is the initial fizz (sorry for any wrong terminology) & all the gold drops perfectly. Maybe worth a try?

 

[butcher]

shruli,​

I like it and would like to see and learn more that looks like some nice gold from that scrap.

 

[shruli]

Thank you for the compliment Butcher!
I have been very pleased with the results, which are consistent so far. With plenty of trial & errors and obsessive reading & not being able to get nitric acid in the UK, I just balance the strength of HCL as low as 5-10% with potassium nitrate (saltpetre) to dissolve the base metals, stripping as much as I can by hand prior to any chemicals. I guess it's slower than nitric acid & probably creates a bit more, although diluted waste. I am using 20% HCL with potassium nitrate to dissolve the gold & any small amount recovered from the waste. I precipitate the gold with ascorbic acid (vitamin c) then boil with HCL then water.
I still feel very new to this, as there is so much to learn, but very happy to share what little experience I have gained. I have accumulated over 100grams of very nice gold so far & even made my wife a new 18ct rose gold wedding ring from some of it. Loving every minute, but would never have started without the valuable information available on this site, especially regarding safety.

 

[Erceg]

Back a little to sodium metabisulfite problem. You can use potassium metabisulfite instead. You can find it in agricultural pharmacies, any store that deals with vine. It is called vine protector here. Dirt cheep. Only problem is that it can do funky stuff with PMG-s, drop them also. I have that written in my notes but all I know is from this forum so you can check it further.

 

[nwinther]

So its real hard to find a place to buy SMB in Norway, so i Wonder if a can use zinc power instead in Aqua regia....?

Or what Else can i use? Got some Sodium Carbonate and Sodium Sulfate

Curious Dane here, wondering where you get your feedstock (gold plate/-filled/carat) and how you do with other expenses, such as power and chemicals.
Here in Denmark, there's a heavy tax on power, silver and chemicals, so anything remotely golden or made from silver packs a premium in cost that you are unlikely to recover.
I don't refine or anything, just reading along, and I've found that refining is easier/less expensive/financially sustainable in other countries that don't have the same taxes.

So I was surprised to see a fellow Scandinavian actually doing it! Taxes are somewhat similar I guess but maybe you found a sweet spot somewhere in Norway.

 

[davidzaslow]

I brew beer and make wine at.
Metabisulfpite is used more in wine than beer because of the sulfuric odor and taste stay in the beer so any wine making supply store will have it.
You can also try at a pharmacy.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Curious Dane here, wondering where you get your feedstock (gold plate/-filled/carat) and how you do with other expenses, such as power and chemicals.
Here in Denmark, there's a heavy tax on power, silver and chemicals, so anything remotely golden or made from silver packs a premium in cost that you are unlikely to recover.
I don't refine or anything, just reading along, and I've found that refining is easier/less expensive/financially sustainable in other countries that don't have the same taxes.

So I was surprised to see a fellow Scandinavian actually doing it! Taxes are somewhat similar I guess but maybe you found a sweet spot somewhere in Norway.

Most here start it as a hobby, and reading his post I assume he hasn't quite started yet.
The hardest part is getting a steady feedstock. I used to get free discarded Laptops from my work.
That was enough to feed my hobby.
With the AP process and cherry picking, the cost are quite low.
But so are speed which don't matter much if it is a hobby.
The next thing, and I have not done it yet, is to sell your gold.
I have no idea on how to do that.
Regards Per-Ove

 

[nwinther]

Most here start it as a hobby, and reading his post I assume he hasn't quite started yet.
The hardest part is getting a steady feedstock. I used to get free discarded Laptops from my work.
That was enough to feed my hobby.
With the AP process and cherry picking, the cost are quite low.
But so are speed which don't matter much if it is a hobby.
The next thing, and I have not done it yet, is to sell your gold.
I have no idea on how to do that.
Regards Per-Ove

AP?

Selling your gold, I'd expect you could go into a jewelers (with a workshop) and he'd buy it.