Sourcing Nitric Acid in the UK - any alternatives?

[stantona1978]

Hi all,

I am new here and this my first post. Great forum by the way.

I live in the UK, and I am just starting out in the Gold refining hobby. I've sourced and ordered Muriatic Acid, Sodium Metabisulphite, Urea and distilled water. The trouble is getting hold of Nitric Acid. The reason is, here in the UK, the government has restricted the sale of Nitric Acid to members of the public. Due to the possibility of making explosives with it.

In order to obtain it for personal use, you need to get a licence from the government home office costing £40 UK sterling pounds. (61 Dollars in todays exchange rate). My question is, are there any alternatives for me to use instead of Nitric acid? If so, any suggestions please? I've searched the forum looking for people in the same situation, but i cannot find the answers.

Do I have to bite the bullet and obtain a licence from these money grabbing bureaucrats?
Any advice would be very much appreciated.

 

[Justincase]

unfortunately you are not alone.
A good number of the chemicals you will need to refine have been put on a high shelf,with out them your options are very limited.
Even trying to use off the shelf alternative's will land you in trouble as they are trying to lump every thing under "the manufacture of prohibited substances."Big Big problem as like most bureaucracy they will not distinguish between offenders.
Not only do you need to apply for the licence but you will have to prove you will be safe to handle them and will not pass them on.
next year even possession will be a criminal offence .
this covers the hole of europe.
It is my understanding that they will actively look for reasons to deny a licence when ever they can.
I have not heard of any one who has obtained one as of yet either.
I went the other rought and formed a trading company.
So if you are not already setup and running you will find it very hard to get a foot hold in refining now.
I only just got in my the skin of my teeth.
But never mind just concentrate on collection and none chemical recovery,E,G, incineration and gravity concentration.
Then pass it on to some one equiped to refine,hint hint..
Just

 

[stantona1978]

Oh no. Serious????

Ive just forked out a shed load of money too, setting the whole thing up.

Oh wow, how to set a trading company - research here i come. Cheers Justin, many thanks for your input.

 

[Justincase]

Remember you will need.
A business account that shows a justifiable turn over.
The relevant tax declaration each year,being that you like my self will have to combine that with your P.Y.E. job make's that quite interesting.
A polymorphic accounting system to track all acquisitions from source to disposal that can adapt around the differing VAT and capital gains tax implication's dependent on a number of variable's,mostly depending on if it was disposed of as an item,for investment purposes or for industrial use.
The cost of Au means that very soon you will be in the realm of actively proving your transactions are not being used to launder money,You may want to look at the terms and conditions on my web site. www.bakernoblemetals.com.
Proper paper work will save you the 17.5% fine on your turn over they will try to levy for failing to meet there expectations.
The U.K. government try's to discourage undeclared income with a fervor that defies logic,it's attitude stamps out individual creativity and has stomped a great meany project's that would have been good for the hole country if left alone.

 

[danieldavies]

sodium nitrate could be an option. i bought some two weeks ago no problem. making aqua regia is possible but silver refining is out of the question.

 

[Justincase]

sodium nitrate could be an option. i bought some two weeks ago no problem. making aqua regia is possible but silver refining is out of the question.

Salt Peter is most definitely covered by the new legislation.
If you have acquired any of the item's listed Reportable substances

ammonium nitrate
acetone
hexamine
sulphuric acid
potassium nitrate
sodium nitrate
calcium nitrate
calcium ammonium nitrate
or some above Concentration threshold
hydrogen peroxide:12% w/w
nitromethane: 30% w/w
nitric acid: 3% w/w
sodium chlorate: 40% w/w
potassium chlorate: 40% w/w
sodium perchlorate: 40% w/w
potassium perchlorate: 40% w/w

I would not advertise it on an open site.
you may be the first one to be pulled out of line
Couple that with the lack of understanding about the subject most people have ,just about any chemical activity is now going to be put under such a spot light it is best to be over prepared for any inquiry.

 

[danieldavies]

you dont need a licence for buying sodium nitrate, it just gets reported. aslong as im not doing anything silly i should be fine. i might get a knock at my door at some point and i will just tell them the truth on what im doing (gold refining/recover).

 

[Justincase]

"Dear Justin
Thank you for your email.
The licence requirements apply only to the purchase of regulated substances up until 3 March 2016. After that date they will also apply to possession and use of the substances by members of the general public.
As you cannot yet demonstrate to a supplier that you need the substances for the purposes of your trade, business or profession at the current time, you would need to apply for a licence in order to purchase the substances.
You do not need a licence for the substances currently in your possession. If you are not set up as a trading business by 3 March 2016, you will need a licence even for the substances in your possession.
Kind regards,

J. Fanshaw

CBRNE unit

"

 

[stantona1978]

sodium nitrate could be an option. i bought some two weeks ago no problem. making aqua regia is possible but silver refining is out of the question.

Do i just add the sodium nitrate in equal parts as i would of used the nitric acid? Any different processes or steps? Many thanks for this alternative.

 

[Justincase]

add it very slowly in very small incriment's
I have not seen any way to remove an excess form solution so have never thought of it as practical for selective percipitation.
You may have to use solvent extraction to get a good result.
I may well be incorect and look forward to having it explained further.

 

[g_axelsson]

Here is a description of the process i found a couple of days ago when doing research on aqua regia and it's varieties for the wiki.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=19576&p=198687#p198687

Any excess nitrate should be possible to remove by evaporation and adding HCl denoxing method, turning the metal nitrates into metal chlorides.

Göran

 

[stantona1978]

Many thanks for your help on my queries, very much appreciated. I'll take a good look at the links provided in this thread and the many available to me on here over the next few weeks.

I think im going to stick to the recovery process first for a good few weeks/months. Get a good collection of gold flakes from fingers/cpu's etc. And get confident in the use of measuring, using my equipment and my safety equipment like my respirator mask. Safety first is the key, reading a fair few posts aimed at beginners on here. Plenty of research needed for the refining stages is needed i think, especially with alternative methods to which i have researched already. I've downloaded the Hoke pdf, which is a good starting point for me. Then during our summer months, (our weather is lot different to the American climate, hahaha) i will look at trying out refining, then smelting.

Once again, many thanks for all your guidance.

 

[Justincase]

Here is a description of the process i found a couple of days ago when doing research on aqua regia and it's varieties for the wiki.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=19576&p=198687#p198687

Any excess nitrate should be possible to remove by evaporation and adding HCl denoxing method, turning the metal nitrates into metal chlorides.

Göran

I did not think you could evaporate a salt.douse the Sodium/potasium nitrate turn to Nitric acid in Hydrocloric?
Never having to make Nitric Acid I have never tryed that process.

 

[g_axelsson]

You don't evaporate the salt, the nitrate ion combines with the protons (H-ions) from hydrochloric acid to form nitric acid. When mixed with three more HCl molecules it turns into nitrosyl chloride and chlorine which both are gases and evaporates when heated. That is how denoxing actually works. Left over in solution is the Cl ions and metal ions that forms a chloride salt instead of the nitrate salt we started with.

For example, simplified it can be seen as (Everything is dissolved and isn't combined, but as a help for the brain)

NaNO₃ + HCl → HNO₃ + NaCl

Next step

HNO₃ + 3 HCl → NOCl + 2 Cl + 2 H₂O

http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/Aqua_regia#Decomposition_of_aqua_regia
and a bit more detailed...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_regia#Decomposition_of_aqua_regia

Göran

 

[Emporio]

I had the same problem. The only way to buy nitric acid in Scandinavia is to have a permit from the government. The application fee for the permit is a little over 80 USD and there is no guarantees that you will get the permit either. Much like in the UK.

One alternativ is to make your own nitric acid by destillation using one part calcium nitrate Ca(NO3)2, and two parts sodium hydrogen sulfate NaHSO4.
No license is required for these two chemicals here, I don't know how it is in the UK. One is used as fertilizer and the other is used for lowering the pH in pools.

 

[stantona1978]

I had the same problem. The only way to buy nitric acid in Scandinavia is to have a permit from the government. The application fee for the permit is a little over 80 USD and there is no guarantees that you will get the permit either. Much like in the UK.

One alternativ is to make your own nitric acid by destillation using one part calcium nitrate Ca(NO3)2, and two parts sodium hydrogen sulfate NaHSO4.
No license is required for these two chemicals here, I don't know how it is in the UK. One is used as fertilizer and the other is used for lowering the pH in pools.

Thanks mate, but i don't have the equipment for distillation just yet, nor the safe working area space really. I'll look into it in the future though. Cheers.