Stainless Steel Silver Cell _smallsilvercell_

[GOLDbuyerCA]

Pulse Plating is DC, with current reversal, "pulse" for a fraction of the time, 1/10 to 1/100 in reverse current, to keep the so called Slimes from building up on the plated material collector.

This technique gives a very high quality to plating. Most supplies are just voltage, and current flow, as you set it up. Over voltage, and current deminishing, is the electro motive force. to get
the metal out of solution. as you may know, end current reduction is an indication of plating out your metal from solution. or end of effective playing from a spoiled solution

i will take a "shot" at giving a picture, discriptive, of contact connectors to stainless steel. and an anti oxidizing shield to keep the plater from coroding. nasty stuff oxidazation.

Very good pictures of your procedure. enjoyed.

 

[kadriver]

The cell has run for two weeks non-stop. It ran at 3.1 volts with variouos amperages betweeen 1.5 to 2.0 amps.

I found that I could pull the filter material up (like you pull up your shorts if they slide down your hips) and the amps would increase. It shifted the anode bars in the basket and improved electron flow through the cell. I am using a doulbe filter made of tough dacron material (a filter inside a filter inside the basket).

I disassembled the cell Wednesday evening - it only took about 5 minutes. I could put it all back together in about the same amount of time.

The cleanout is much easier. I used a piece of plastic to scrap the crystals off the bowl - they came right off with no problem.

There is a lip on the edge of the stainless bowl and it allows pouring off the electrolyte with NO DRIPPING.

Should be about 60 or 70 troy ounces of pure silver there.

I am going to use this same electrolyte (after filtering) for my next batch of silver, augmented with about another 100grams of pure silver.

I have a spectrophotometer that I am using to measure the dissolved copper in the cell - I kept a sample of the used electrolyte to analyze - the spectrophotometer will tell me how much dissolved copper is in the electrolyte sample from the stainless steel silver cell. Here is the thread for the spectrophotometer;

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17232

I stuck the used filter basket in a casserole dish with lid to keep it proteced.

I love this new setup.

kadriver

 

[element47.5]

Beautiful job and as always, thanks for the great pictures! Maybe the following could be a source a modest improvement in your throughput time. Because you pour your raw anode bars, the ones you have shown (to my eye) appear to have a convex top...or, freeze-ring ridges on top. Regardless, this produces the possibility of reduced contact area, bar-to-bar. Less contact area = less current flow = reduced deposition rate. I am not sure if there's a way to give the tops of the raw bars a good smack with a hammer in a way that doesn't embed impurities into the bars which would then cause other issues....or run them through a rolling type of deal, between two heavy steel cylinders so as to flatten out any bumps or overall convexity. But I DO know that if you processed all your raw anode bars so that bumps or convexivity were taken out or reduced you'd get better current flow.

Just a thought on your fine work which is already near ideal, as I see it.

 

[kadriver]

Yes, this would be an improvement. I have thought about granulating the cement silver instead of pouring bars.

Just put the granules in the anode basket and set the electrode bar on the granuales.

I may try this for my next batch of silver.

I have put crystals in the anode basket to re-refine them and it woked perfectly.

kadriver

 

[philddreamer]

Kad, try to pour bigger anodes, thus, more surface area; with the bowl you have plenty of surface area, so the more surface area on your anode more speed of deposition.
GSP once shared this with me when I was building my half galon cell:
"Since you're using a cathode on both sides of the anode, you can calculate both sides of the anode to determine the best amperage to use. You have 10 in2 of anode area (both sides). For that area, ideally, you would use about 3.5 amps or, twice as much as you would use with only one cathode - therefore, you would get twice the production. The cathode surface area isn't that critical, but I would recommend at least a 1 to 1 ratio, and having the cathode area twice the size of the anode would probably be better - it might give denser crystals. "
Phil

 

[kadriver]

Got it Phil - thanks

 

[Dawg]

I've been watching/reading Kadriver's post's thru out this forum. Kad you got it going, I've got to try the Stainless my next go round, I did 102 troy when I got back from Afganistan ealier this year swapped out with NTR in Buffalo NY for Bullion certified. For grins and BS I took a few bars into one of the local places in Utica "Cash For Gold" the guy was very interested then started telling me it had lead in it I had to laugh I know it didnt there for he could on give me 50% spot started packing my stuff back up then an offer of 55%. I drove to Buffalo they did all their test got my assay at .98. Anyway Kad you and this whole forum are amazing. I've learned alot for you & everyone ( also read alot over & over) I've only been able to do what I did last summer by standing on the shoulders of Giants.

 

[kadriver]

Dawg - Thanks man, this forum really is unbeatable, nothing on the internet comes close.

I did the same thing with a 1 troy ounce piece of gold I refined. I took it to the cash for gold guy and he said, "its too heavy and too yellow to be real gold". One guy thought it was gold plated lead!

He would'nt touch it. I can't blame them though - too much fake stuff out there so you must be careful.

Here is a shot of the pure silver crystal from the stainless cell clean-out (see attached photo).

The new configuration ran for exactly two weeks. I harvested 2300.1 grams of pure silver crystal - almost 74 troy ounces.

The glass/graphite dual cells used to run for about 20 days and give me around 50 troy ounces.

I used 184 grams of the crystal to augment the electrolyte for the next cell set-up and operation.

When I dissolved the 184 grams the resulting silver nitrate solution was crystal clear - looked just like pure water.

This stainless configuration is the way to go. I had it set up and running again, in no time at all.

I have many upgrades to install such as larger anode basket and larger anode bars, stainless lugs to allow easy connection of the electrical leads. Someone suggested welding electrical connection points on the bottom of the cell - I might look at doing this too.

Also, I would like to experiment with muslin cloth for the anode filters. The dacron material I use for the anode filter bags has a tight weave. This might be causing a restriction and slowing the process.

But for now I have so much silver (and many bills to pay) that I just can't afford for the cell to be down for extended periods.

I am greatful to be in this line of work - its like a dream come true for ka!

 

[Palladium]

I think you will like the muslin cloth. It's economical and efficient for the job. I found it in the fabric department at Wal-Mart and for $10 you can buy enough to last a long time.

 

[mikeinkaty]

I think you will like the muslin cloth. It's economical and efficient for the job. I found it in the fabric department at Wal-Mart and for $10 you can buy enough to last a long time.

I got 2 yards of the tight weave there at walmart and I ran it through the washing machine to get ride of the sizing on it. I cut 4" circles out of it to use in the Buchner funnel when a coffee filter is not porous enough.

 

[Palladium]

That's like 2.5 oz/day for the graphite dual cells and
5.2 oz/day for the stainless single cell. Double the output. Didn't you do a measurement one time on the graphite cell where you measured amperes consumption? If i'm not mistaken weren't you consuming more amps in that circuit?

 

[g_axelsson]

I have many upgrades to install such as larger anode basket and larger anode bars, stainless lugs to allow easy connection of the electrical leads. Someone suggested welding electrical connection points on the bottom of the cell - I might look at doing this too.

I would be careful with welding anything to the bottom. I experimented with some cells 20 years ago and I used stainless steel vessels, but one of them sprung a leak, the spot weld where the handle were attached didn't stand up to the environment and developed tiny holes and cracks. I think that the heat and strain can affect the alloy in a bad way. Even below the melting point of an alloy you could have atoms migrating away from crystal boundaries, making a grain boundary that isn't the same alloy as the bulk material.
If you are going to weld contacts on your vessel, do it at the rim... or why not just use a metal plate under the vessel, just standing the cell on it to make contact.

Göran

 

[Palladium]

I have many upgrades to install such as larger anode basket and larger anode bars, stainless lugs to allow easy connection of the electrical leads. Someone suggested welding electrical connection points on the bottom of the cell - I might look at doing this too.

I would be careful with welding anything to the bottom. I experimented with some cells 20 years ago and I used stainless steel vessels, but one of them sprung a leak, the spot weld where the handle were attached didn't stand up to the environment and developed tiny holes and cracks. I think that the heat and strain can affect the alloy in a bad way. Even below the melting point of an alloy you could have atoms migrating away from crystal boundaries, making a grain boundary that isn't the same alloy as the bulk material.
If you are going to weld contacts on your vessel, do it at the rim... or why not just use a metal plate under the vessel, just standing the cell on it to make contact.

Göran

Very good observation. Here is the science behind what you are talking about. It's a dam good read also. http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.6/palmer.html

 

[kadriver]

Palladium,

I connected the new power supply to the glass cells and I could only get 0.3 amps to flow, and that was drifting lower as the cells operated.

At 3.1 volts and after adjusting the filter bags I was able to get 1.9 to 2.0 amps to flow with the stainless setup (the average was about 1.6 amps).

So I would say that the power requirements would be much greater with the greater flow experienced using the stainless cell setup.

Welding on the bottom of the cell not a good idea - got it.

There is a rubber coating on the bottom of the bowl so a metal plate wouldn't work unless I stripped off the coating first.

This cell setup us a giant leap for me - thanks again Palladium.

kadriver

 

[GOLDbuyerCA]

admire your results 74 of crystal, silver, , you got my attention, very good photo, , we all should have a photo or two like that,

 

[kadriver]

Beautiful job and as always, thanks for the great pictures! Maybe the following could be a source a modest improvement in your throughput time. Because you pour your raw anode bars, the ones you have shown (to my eye) appear to have a convex top...or, freeze-ring ridges on top. Regardless, this produces the possibility of reduced contact area, bar-to-bar. Less contact area = less current flow = reduced deposition rate. I am not sure if there's a way to give the tops of the raw bars a good smack with a hammer in a way that doesn't embed impurities into the bars which would then cause other issues....or run them through a rolling type of deal, between two heavy steel cylinders so as to flatten out any bumps or overall convexity. But I DO know that if you processed all your raw anode bars so that bumps or convexivity were taken out or reduced you'd get better current flow.

Just a thought on your fine work which is already near ideal, as I see it.

I have experienced another upgrade to operating my silver cell.

I added the silver "shot" made from cement silver to my anode basket and it seems to work perfectly.

The shot provides many places for electrical contact and eliminates the need for have the bars completely flat to make good electrical contact.

Making the shot saves time over having to cast anode bars.

Also, when adding the anode bars to the anode basket I would have to remove the electrode to stack new bars underneath the electrode bar (the bar with the little post for attching the alligator clip).

With the shot I just pour it in over the electrode bar and then kind of pick up on it to allow the shot to work its way underneath.

From now one I'll be using silver shot made from cement silver instead of anode bars for my electrolytic silver cell.

The silver from the first clean-out assayed at 999 fine by NTR today.

kadriver

 

[element47.5]

Well apart from our species-wide instinct to really, really like molten metal (think: Quasimodo in The Hunchback of Notre Dame)

Even though you have it down to a fine art and it's certainly somewhat satisfying to make the pours, it has to be a happy thing for you to eliminate the need to ingotize your raw anodes.

Why couldn't your next ingot "stub" be the next sterling spoon you snag at the next garage sale? Or are you trying to keep anything worse than say .98 out of the soup?

Have you run a good load (50+ oz) thru your cell with "shot" anode?

I ask because I'm curious if you can just pour new shot into the basket as the cell processes the initial charge.

The pictures are great!

 

[kadriver]

I have made two additions of shot to the anode basket since I started the cell. I just pour the shot in while the cell is operating.

It might be the placebo effect, but it seems to me that the shot is running through much quicker than the solid anode bars did last time around.

I have more cement silver to run throught the cell. I am keeping better records since I began operating this cell.

We will see if the shot makes a difference in speed.

Cool stuff!

kadriver

 

[its-all-a-lie]

I have made two additions of shot to the anode basket since I started the cell. I just pour the shot in while the cell is operating.

It might be the placebo effect, but it seems to me that the shot is running through much quicker than the solid anode bars did last time around.

I have more cement silver to run throught the cell. I am keeping better records since I began operating this cell.

We will see if the shot makes a difference in speed.

Cool stuff!

kadriver

^ The kid in the candy store with a pocket full of quarters :mrgreen:

 

[element47.5]

but it seems to me that the shot is running through much quicker than the solid anode bars did last time around.

I have more cement silver to run throught the cell.

kadriver

You're going to have just about the best darn surface area = current flow imaginable with the shot.