sulfuric stripping cell: My basket got eaten What did I do wrong.

[gregory-d]

Consider this: When the cell starts, voltage is extremely low as there is a lot of golden surface for electrons to escape in the solution and oxidize gold in a zone as described.
I can imagine and am pretty sure that at this time the most gold is stripped. As lesser surface remains available after some time, the voltage rizes. With the current staying maxed out at it's setting.
I find it hard to believe that when most gold is stripped which makes the voltage rize, also more gold per watt will be stripped.

Current still running at max setting.

According to your theory: the power consumption is greater after most of the easy to get gold is stripped, but i'm pretty sure at the beginning the most gold per Amp is stripped.

The voltage rizes once it is harder to get the current off the stripped parts.
This would mean less gold per Amp per Second.

That is the opposite of what you're trying to prove or figure out with watts.

It's the high resistance of copper to concentated H2SO4 making the voltage rise. Until there is no more current.

My 2 cents.

How I see it.
The voltage rises until the amps reach the level that they are set to.
Once the amps start going below their limit the voltage can rise.
It will rise until it's limit is reached and then as it can go no further everything basically stops.
So when there is no gold the voltage will max then the amps go down because the resistance is above that and no current can flow.
So both need to be set to some limit to keep the reaction below a particular temperature.

One of the things I think I did wrong at the start is I didn't restrict the amps so they went really high and I am thinking that that increased the temperature even just locally (there wasn't that much material there) to the point where the copper was starting to get stripped.
I also walked away and it just did wtf it liked.

 

[gregory-d]

For the people who said I just used a battery charger well yep they are set to restrict both the volts and the amps

 

[gregory-d]

TLDR
I get it
but I just can't help myself sorry.
And for any other over thinkers here.
It took a while of arguing with chatGPT but it finally came up with this.
I actually think it's a pretty good explanation really.

Modern Understanding of Current and Energy Transfer​

1. Electron Drift vs. Energy Propagation:
   • Electron Drift: In a conductor, individual electrons move very slowly (drift velocity). This drift is due to the applied electric field.
   • Energy Propagation: The energy from the electric field propagates through the conductor almost at the speed of light. This is why electrical signals can travel quickly through circuits, even if individual electrons move slowly.
2. Current:
   • Current (Amps) measures the flow of electric charge, which is the movement of electrons in the conductor. While individual electrons drift slowly, the current represents the rate of charge flow through a circuit.
3. Voltage:
   • Voltage (Volts) is the electric potential difference that drives the movement of charge carriers. It provides the energy per unit charge that drives electrons through the conductor.
4. Power:
   • Power (Watts) is the rate at which electrical energy is converted into other forms of energy. It is calculated as the product of voltage and current, reflecting the total energy transferred per second.

Key Points:​

• Electrons do move in a conductor, albeit slowly, but their collective movement results in an electric current.
• Energy propagates rapidly through the conductor, allowing electrical signals to travel at speeds close to the speed of light.

In summary, while the drift velocity of electrons is slow, the energy transfer and signal propagation in a circuit occur very rapidly. This distinction is crucial for understanding how electrical systems work in practice.

 

[Yggdrasil]

TLDR
I get it
but I just can't help myself sorry.
And for any other over thinkers here.
It took a while of arguing with chatGPT but it finally came up with this.
I actually think it's a pretty good explanation really.

Modern Understanding of Current and Energy Transfer​

1. Electron Drift vs. Energy Propagation:
   • Electron Drift: In a conductor, individual electrons move very slowly (drift velocity). This drift is due to the applied electric field.
   • Energy Propagation: The energy from the electric field propagates through the conductor almost at the speed of light. This is why electrical signals can travel quickly through circuits, even if individual electrons move slowly.
2. Current:
   • Current (Amps) measures the flow of electric charge, which is the movement of electrons in the conductor. While individual electrons drift slowly, the current represents the rate of charge flow through a circuit.
3. Voltage:
   • Voltage (Volts) is the electric potential difference that drives the movement of charge carriers. It provides the energy per unit charge that drives electrons through the conductor.
4. Power:
   • Power (Watts) is the rate at which electrical energy is converted into other forms of energy. It is calculated as the product of voltage and current, reflecting the total energy transferred per second.

Key Points:​

• Electrons do move in a conductor, albeit slowly, but their collective movement results in an electric current.
• Energy propagates rapidly through the conductor, allowing electrical signals to travel at speeds close to the speed of light.

In summary, while the drift velocity of electrons is slow, the energy transfer and signal propagation in a circuit occur very rapidly. This distinction is crucial for understanding how electrical systems work in practice.

Here is a ChatGPT free musing from the top of my head

1 Amp is one Coulomb per second.
1 Coulomb is 6.24x10¹⁸ electrons, so to transfer 1 Amp one need to push 6.24x10¹⁸ electrons into that conductor per second.
But since the conductor are already full it will at the same instantly push the equal amount of electrons out of the other end.
So one can say that each electron has a relatively "slow" speed, it as a system it is quite quick and dirty,
when one get into the realm of superconducting the the over all system works the same way but instead of the electrons crisscrossing and bumping into all other kinds of particles, it follows a very direct and organized path through the conductor and as such do not bleed energy to the host material.
The overall mechanics of energy transport is the same though, but just that the simple theoretical and practical values converge to be the same.
And a host of exciting new possibilities arise

 

[gregory-d]

Here is a ChatGPT free musing from the top of my head

1 Amp is one Coulomb per second.
1 Coulomb is 6.24x10¹⁸ electrons, so to transfer 1 Amp one need to push 6.24x10¹⁸ electrons into that conductor per second.
But since the conductor are already full it will at the same instantly push the equal amount of electrons out of the other end.
So one can say that each electron has a relatively "slow" speed, it as a system it is quite quick and dirty,
when one get into the realm of superconducting the the over all system works the same way but instead of the electrons crisscrossing and bumping into all other kinds of particles, it follows a very direct and organized path through the conductor and as such do not bleed energy to the host material.
The overall mechanics of energy transport is the same though, but just that the simple theoretical and practical values converge to be the same.
And a host of exciting new possibilities arise

Totally I love this stuff. Completely different rabbit hole but at the same time connected. The understanding you gain in one allows you to go deeper down the other.

 

[Martijn]

TLDR
I get it
but I just can't help myself sorry.
And for any other over thinkers here.
It took a while of arguing with chatGPT but it finally came up with this.
I actually think it's a pretty good explanation really.

Modern Understanding of Current and Energy Transfer​

1. Electron Drift vs. Energy Propagation:
   • Electron Drift: In a conductor, individual electrons move very slowly (drift velocity). This drift is due to the applied electric field.
   • Energy Propagation: The energy from the electric field propagates through the conductor almost at the speed of light. This is why electrical signals can travel quickly through circuits, even if individual electrons move slowly.
2. Current:
   • Current (Amps) measures the flow of electric charge, which is the movement of electrons in the conductor. While individual electrons drift slowly, the current represents the rate of charge flow through a circuit.
3. Voltage:
   • Voltage (Volts) is the electric potential difference that drives the movement of charge carriers. It provides the energy per unit charge that drives electrons through the conductor.
4. Power:
   • Power (Watts) is the rate at which electrical energy is converted into other forms of energy. It is calculated as the product of voltage and current, reflecting the total energy transferred per second.

Key Points:​

• Electrons do move in a conductor, albeit slowly, but their collective movement results in an electric current.
• Energy propagates rapidly through the conductor, allowing electrical signals to travel at speeds close to the speed of light.

In summary, while the drift velocity of electrons is slow, the energy transfer and signal propagation in a circuit occur very rapidly. This distinction is crucial for understanding how electrical systems work in practice.

i don't see how individual speed or energy transfers of electrons influence this process. Turn on the switch, and the light goes on. Immediately.

It might be as stated above, but until someone with factual knowledge debunks it or proves parts of the copy-paste chat GPT statements to be (partially) wrong.
I would like this AI madness to be left out of refining completely, unless a very knowledgeable chemist can confirm the statements as facts the type writer was spewing out.
and the info is probably all written here ( where AI is mining for knowledge someone is too lazy to figure out themselves.

We also do not encourage new members to use exotic chemicals and dangerous processes, but start learning from scratch and build from there.

it is very easy to get a misunderstanding out there, and after it gets copied enough by people without any filter,, AI takes it as a fact and builds further upon that mistake. It's a computer, Not an interpreting, evaluating, and ethical filtering human mind. Some humans act as computers though...

No room for AI copy-paste guessing or mistakes in this field imo.

 

[Shark]

AI is so accurate I turned it off on my new phone. I prefer more real information.

 

[gregory-d]

i don't see how individual speed or energy transfers of electrons influence this process. Turn on the switch, and the light goes on. Immediately.

It is an electrochemical process so it the amount of energy input will greatly effect the reaction. Even a light switch is not as simple as you describe. There is a threshold at which we consider the light to be on. Everything is analogue not digital. Things gradually change. The only way to make things digital is to say at this point something is on and at that point its of.
A breaker switch is probably the closest thing to an on of situation we have but that is still analogue as the amount of contact changes. Put an amp meter in a circuit with a switch and wiggle the switch. The current will vary as the contact changes.
These are not guesses that are from my personal knowledge and experience.

It might be as stated above, but until someone with factual knowledge debunks it or proves parts of the copy-paste chat GPT statements to be (partially) wrong.
I would like this AI madness to be left out of refining completely, unless a very knowledgeable chemist can confirm the statements as facts the type writer was spewing out.
and the info is probably all written here ( where AI is mining for knowledge someone is too lazy to figure out themselves.

I only used the AI to explain the information I already know but can't explain correctly or simply
As I said in the post it took me a long time arguing with it to get that result.
But I agree chatGPT and other AI are not something to just follow blindly.
It is also why I made it clear that those were not my words.

We also do not encourage new members to use exotic chemicals and dangerous processes, but start learning from scratch and build from there.

For me with my experience this process is closest to my levels of knowledge and abilities.
Edit for clarification:
It is why I asked the question in the first place. I was trying to track down how copper could be eaten in 98% sulphuric acid.
Even after lots more research this shouldn't happen and if the world was digital as your light switch example suggests it wouldn't but it did and now I have a better understanding and have a chance to collect other people's ideas.

No room for AI copy-paste guessing or mistakes in this field imo.

Ok I'll leave it there and stop this silliness.