Suspected gold bar

[no1special69]

A friend asked if I could verify a suspected gold bar. While I have read Hoke and have recovered and refined a few small batches following Lazer Steve's videos so I am not completely uneducated in the arts, I planned to do a simple home test before going to get assayed and looking quite foolish with some fake. I sawed off a small corner and saw that color was consistent all the way through after a magnet check. My plan is to dissolve the filings from the cut in hcl+bleach as I would with finger foils then make some stannis from hcl+80-20 tin sodder and heat and should be able to make a accurate verdict as to whether or not is worth moving forward with taking it to get further testing done. Does anyone see a fault in my plan?

 

[GoIdman]

A friend asked if I could verify a suspected gold bar. While I have read Hoke and have recovered and refined a few small batches following Lazer Steve's videos so I am not completely uneducated in the arts, I planned to do a simple home test before going to get assayed and looking quite foolish with some fake. I sawed off a small corner and saw that color was consistent all the way through after a magnet check. My plan is to dissolve the filings from the cut in hcl+bleach as I would with finger foils then make some stannis from hcl+80-20 tin sodder and heat and should be able to make a accurate verdict as to whether or not is worth moving forward with taking it to get further testing done. Does anyone see a fault in my plan?

Are you shure it is gold?
Allthough the picture is not the best quality, from the apparent size of the flakes/sawing/filings it looks more brass then gold. If this is one of those " ebay ... melted pins and computer parts..." kind of material, unfortunately it has almost or completely no gold in composition.
To answer your question, in these cases a gold testing kit with scrach stone would have been more handy. dissolving and testing with stannous is ok as well.
What did your test result show?

Pete.

 

[no1special69]

Are you shure it is gold?
Allthough the picture is not the best quality, from the apparent size of the flakes/sawing/filings it looks more brass then gold. If this is one of those " ebay ... melted pins and computer parts..." kind of material, unfortunately it has almost or completely no gold in composition.
To answer your question, in these cases a gold testing kit with scrach stone would have been more handy. dissolving and testing with stannous is ok as well.
What did your test result show?

Pete.

No am not sure it's gold that's what I want to determine with materials I can pick up cheaply and locally. Don't want to put any money into it until I do verify. But know I can get everything I need for this test for under $10. Will get back and post results later this afternoon

 

[Martijn]

A friend asked if I could verify a suspected gold bar. While I have read Hoke and have recovered and refined a few small batches following Lazer Steve's videos so I am not completely uneducated in the arts, I planned to do a simple home test before going to get assayed and looking quite foolish with some fake. I sawed off a small corner and saw that color was consistent all the way through after a magnet check. My plan is to dissolve the filings from the cut in hcl+bleach as I would with finger foils then make some stannis from hcl+80-20 tin sodder and heat and should be able to make a accurate verdict as to whether or not is worth moving forward with taking it to get further testing done. Does anyone see a fault in my plan?

No, Go head! good plan.
To test your stannous, do you have a dilute reference Au solution?

Can you tell us where your friend got the bar from? It's very unlikely anyone without any knowledge of, or experience in trading with gold gets a full bar of it in his hands. If they do, it's usually is fake or illegal. If he got it from E-bay, don't even bother checking, It's a door stopper.

No am not sure it's gold

Why? just a gut feeling, or based on data?

Martijn.

 

[nickvc]

If you have access to nitric then simply put a sample in a small beaker and add a little nitric if you have any remaining material add a little more nitric if you get no reaction then the remaining material may well be gold, if you dissolve everything then it’s certainly not gold.

 

[no1special69]

No, Go head! good plan.
To test your stannous, do you have a dilute reference Au solution?

Can you tell us where your friend got the bar from? It's very unlikely anyone without any knowledge of, or experience in trading with gold gets a full bar of it in his hands. If they do, it's usually is fake or illegal. If he got it from E-bay, don't even bother checking, It's a door stopper.

Why? just a gut feeling, or based on data?

Martijn.

No gut feeling or data yet was just answering Goldman question if I knew it was gold. The luster is there and did not diminish through the cut. Weight felt heavy. But would have to order to get nitric and came up with this as a local alternative. And can come up with a few finger foils to test stannis. My friend does a lot of bartering and does come up with some valuable things from time to time, but is always ready to trade his left arm if he thinks he is getting more than it's worth... to him

 

[cosmetal]

Are you shure it is gold?
Allthough the picture is not the best quality, from the apparent size of the flakes/sawing/filings it looks more brass then gold. If this is one of those " ebay ... melted pins and computer parts..." kind of material, unfortunately it has almost or completely no gold in composition.
To answer your question, in these cases a gold testing kit with scrach stone would have been more handy. dissolving and testing with stannous is ok as well.
What did your test result show?

Pete.

I agree . . .

"If you think it's gold - it ain't". Old prospector philosophy.

Pease and health,
James

 

[Martijn]

No gut feeling or data yet was just answering Goldman question if I knew it was gold. The luster is there and did not diminish through the cut. Weight felt heavy. But would have to order to get nitric and came up with this as a local alternative. And can come up with a few finger foils to test stannis. My friend does a lot of bartering and does come up with some valuable things from time to time, but is always ready to trade his left arm if he thinks he is getting more than it's worth... to him

Take the dimensions and calculate the volume or weigh the displaced water by suspending it above the bottom in water on a scale. Weigh it and see if it's about 8 to 9 gram per milliliter or cm³ (copper, brass) or 19gr/cm³ (gold)
That should give you a quick answer without using acids.

But your test should work with 5ml of HCl in a test tube, some drops of bleech and one flake of metal.

No more!

That's why we call it a testtube.

If it turns yellow it could be gold.
Stannous will show it, even if there is only a percentage of gold.
Remember copper gives a faint to strong brown reaction so a black stain means nothing definitive yet. Dilute the solution drop to see purple for gold!
Let us know the result from the test you will perform.

Good luck!

 

[no1special69]

Take the dimensions and calculate the volume or weigh the displaced water by suspending it above the bottom in water on a scale. Weigh it and see if it's about 8 to 9 gram per milliliter or cm³ (copper, brass) or 19gr/cm³ (gold)
That should give you a quick answer without using acids.

But your test should work with 5ml of HCl in a test tube, some drops of bleech and one flake of metal.

No more!

That's why we call it a testtube.

If it turns yellow it could be gold.
Stannous will show it, even if there is only a percentage of gold.
Remember copper gives a faint to strong brown reaction so a black stain means nothing definitive yet. Dilute the solution drop to see purple for gold!
Let us know the result from the test you will perform.

Good luck!

Ok I will go that route. The dimensions are 4 3/16 by 2 13/16 and 3/8 inches for all dimensions. So if gold what should the weight be please and thank you for your knowledge rather not make hazardous waste of not a pm

 

[Martijn]

Ok I will go that route. The dimensions are 4 3/16 by 2 13/16 and 3/8 inches for all dimensions. So if gold what should the weight be please and thank you for your knowledge rather not make hazardous waste of not a pm

Will calculate tomorrow. Its getting late.

 

[Martijn]

Ok. Converted it to cm: about 10×7×1 it comes to 72ml in volume which should weigh almost 1400 gram if gold. 630 grams if brass.

 

[no1special69]

Ok. Converted it to cm: about 10×7×1 it comes to 72ml in volume which should weigh almost 1400 gram if gold. 630 grams if brass.
View attachment 59754

Ok thank you very much. My scales only go to 500 so have to go to another friends to use his . Will keep posted

 

[no1special69]

Ok I

Ok. Converted it to cm: about 10×7×1 it comes to 72ml in volume which should weigh almost 1400 gram if gold. 630 grams if brass.
View attachment 59754

I got acceas to a set of scales that covered the range I needed and it weighed 388 g which was not close to either predicted weight and am not sure how was that far off. I did not have a micrometer or calipers but did have a slide ruler and know how to read one. So am on way now to home Depot to pick up a small bottle of hcl and some solder and will do a micro batch as suggested and report that back. Sorry for the delayed answers but have had to drive a good little ways to get access to what I needed and Missouri is cracking down with new laws on any non hands free phone use and I live out in country. Should have this test done within the hour and will report back. Thanks again to all who have give me advise and know that I am following the suggestions. Got to get to store now

 

[Golddigger76]

Take the small corner that you cut off, weight it, dissolve it in hydrochloric and bleach, precipitate the gold with smb, dry your powder if any and see if it weights the same as what you started with.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Ok I

I got acceas to a set of scales that covered the range I needed and it weighed 388 g which was not close to either predicted weight and am not sure how was that far off. I did not have a micrometer or calipers but did have a slide ruler and know how to read one. So am on way now to home Depot to pick up a small bottle of hcl and some solder and will do a micro batch as suggested and report that back. Sorry for the delayed answers but have had to drive a good little ways to get access to what I needed and Missouri is cracking down with new laws on any non hands free phone use and I live out in country. Should have this test done within the hour and will report back. Thanks again to all who have give me advise and know that I am following the suggestions. Got to get to store now

That gives a SG of 5.5 ish
Too heavy for Aluminum and too light for Zinc.
Maybe som Al/Zn alloy?

 

[no1special69]

That gives a SG of 5.5 ish
Too heavy for Aluminum and too light for Zinc.
Maybe som Al/Zn al

 

[no1special69]

Not sure but don't see how could get the color and shine so constant all the way throughout. Just went to home Depot and neither had 80/20 solder so have to hunt some up for tomorrow. And I have done some successful recovery and refining in the past on a hobby basis but have no redilu available nitric or smb without ordering and now may have to order solder I know 5hey used 5o carry it at our Walmart but not any longer

 

[GoIdman]

Not sure but don't see how could get the color and shine so constant all the way throughout. Just went to home Depot and neither had 80/20 solder so have to hunt some up for tomorrow. And I have done some successful recovery and refining in the past on a hobby basis but have no redilu available nitric or smb without ordering and now may have to order solder I know 5hey used 5o carry it at our Walmart but not any longer

If you heat the melt enough and stirr well you can homogenize the alloy. Brass is the best example for this.

Pete

 

[Martijn]

Not sure but don't see how could get the color and shine so constant all the way throughout. Just went to home Depot and neither had 80/20 solder so have to hunt some up for tomorrow. And I have done some successful recovery and refining in the past on a hobby basis but have no redilu available nitric or smb without ordering and now may have to order solder I know 5hey used 5o carry it at our Walmart but not any longer

You can also use an old tin cup or something like that.

But at a density of 5,5, i would not bother testing further. It is an fact a doorstopper, maybe not even heavy enough for that.

Can you say where the bar came from? If only to prevent others from getting one similar.

Take the small corner that you cut off, weight it, dissolve it in hydrochloric and bleach, precipitate the gold with smb, dry your powder if any and see if it weights the same as what you started with.

No need to dissolve the entire corner.

Ok thank you very much. My scales only go to 500 so have to go to another friends to use his . Will keep posted

Funny how you went for a bigger scale, and found out that was light enough for yours.

If you still want to test it, as i said before, one tiny flake will do:

But your test should work with 5ml of HCl in a test tube, some drops of bleech and one flake of metal.

No more!

That's why we call it a testtube.

If it turns yellow it could be gold.
Stannous will show it, even if there is only a percentage of gold.
Remember copper gives a faint to strong brown reaction so a black stain means nothing definitive yet. Dilute the solution drop to see purple for gold!
Let us know the result from the test you will perform.

 

[Nigel]

5.5g/cm3 is a strange density. To get the gold colour would imply some kind of brass, but brass would be between 8 and 9 g/cm3. Without any extra expense, better dimensions and weight would be a start. A picture of the 'gold' bar next to a ruler might help too. The best test would be for copper as that yellow colour is usually gold or copper somewhere in the mix.