This is the bottom section pivoting to pour
Please excuse my sorry representation of the flame path!
Please excuse my sorry representation of the flame path!
Time for a good old fashioned interesting thread
- Thread starter 4metals
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solar_plasma
Well-known member
Geo said:
This would be my favorite. I already thought of if this could be done by aluminothermic means, but I have no clue. I like the idea of ending with harmless Al2O3 smoke and a massive piece of metal. Using carbon I would not feel comfortable with if nickel is involved since I don't know how and when this terrible nickel compound "liquid death" is formed and how to avoid it.
kurtak
Well-known member
4metals said:
Ok - if we have decided on smelting as a discussion thread would it be a good idea to split it off (starting with 4metals last two post) as a thread titled "Smelting" posted in ether techniques or tutorials instead of here in help wanted & under the title asking the question of what would be a good discussion --- my thought being using the right thread title post in the right category will make it better of future researching/referencing :?:
I will certainly contribute to this discussion with what I have learned over the 2 or 3 years but as well I hope to learn more about it in that as much as I have put it into play in my own applications I have by no means yet mastered it
Kurt
alexxx
Well-known member
One can smelt many types of material.
As I understand it, the success and profitability of the smelting depends a lot on material preparation.
Is this aspect of material preparation will be covered depending on the feedstock ?
A few examples of various types of scrap one can get :
-Circuit boards
-Sulfide ores
-low grade PGM bearing material (car spark plugs mentioned earlier)
As I understand it, the success and profitability of the smelting depends a lot on material preparation.
Is this aspect of material preparation will be covered depending on the feedstock ?
A few examples of various types of scrap one can get :
-Circuit boards
-Sulfide ores
-low grade PGM bearing material (car spark plugs mentioned earlier)
bmgold2
Well-known member
solar_plasma said:
After watching Geo's video on cementing copper,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZgWF_SepRk
I renewed my interest in this whole refining hobby. I just don't have enough gold containing scrap to be worth setting up a safe work space to process it yet. If the copper or other metals could be refined into a usable or saleable form, any precious metals would be a bonus.
It still might not be cost effective to refine the copper or other "wastes" produced but I would love to practice the refining using cheaper, more available scrap.
Another thought I have had was how to recover all the solder from the circuit boards. Besides just wanting the low melting metals, it could be good to remove the toxic lead before it goes to the land fill. In the process, I would imagine there could be a little bit of PM's mixed with the solder.
The smelter does sound interesting too. Any chance for more than one "interesting thread"?
Certainly, Kurt has suggested splitting off the smelting portion into another thread, a worthy suggestion which I am not so sure I have ever done successfully. Some other moderator help here would be appreciated.
We can keep this thread going to see what members are wanting to discuss about recovery of other metals and waste.
kurtak
Well-known member
bmgold2 said:
I see no reason why other "interesting threads" couldn't be started (other good ideas came up here) its also why I suggested splitting the actual discussion on smelting off to its own thread & in the proper category --- use this thread for suggesting the next "interesting thread" to be discussed - then when we have one that shows good interest get the actual discussion going in the proper category with a title that makes it easy to find in a search &/or when referencing back to it
I foresee some up & coming good additions to the library 8)
Kurt
I know I've seen lead mentioned several times as a problem metal for the copper refinery, and spoke of again here by 4metals. What are the other problem metals?
That might help me wrap my head around a little thought bubble that's trying to percolate, but right now my lips keep covering my eye teeth and i can't quite see what I'm trying to say.
That might help me wrap my head around a little thought bubble that's trying to percolate, but right now my lips keep covering my eye teeth and i can't quite see what I'm trying to say.
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4metals,I always enjoy hearing how you are working with different people to help improve there system's
How do you approach fee's?
When I worked in the music industry I had great difficulty collecting full payment for services as I could not bill my client's until the conclusion of the event's.
Staging a performance is a strange mix of technical know-how,improvisation on the fly and access to the proper equipment.
Just the research and planning were a considerable investment let alone once you had committed equipment and manpower or trained up the clients personnel and rebuilt their rig.
People who started out as reasonable and friendly turned quite nasty.
Some very large venues that were going into bankruptcy became very profitable.
Never had a problem until they were up and running then finding one's self-flushed when they think they know enough.
The venue would have a short term success but slowly slip back into bancrupsy as it takes a steady hand to manage all the variables.
I have had a similar problem when I tried to move from simply buying to helping a client develop a specialist process for their material.
How do you balance providing an open and honest service against guarding your own interests?
How do you approach fee's?
When I worked in the music industry I had great difficulty collecting full payment for services as I could not bill my client's until the conclusion of the event's.
Staging a performance is a strange mix of technical know-how,improvisation on the fly and access to the proper equipment.
Just the research and planning were a considerable investment let alone once you had committed equipment and manpower or trained up the clients personnel and rebuilt their rig.
People who started out as reasonable and friendly turned quite nasty.
Some very large venues that were going into bankruptcy became very profitable.
Never had a problem until they were up and running then finding one's self-flushed when they think they know enough.
The venue would have a short term success but slowly slip back into bancrupsy as it takes a steady hand to manage all the variables.
I have had a similar problem when I tried to move from simply buying to helping a client develop a specialist process for their material.
How do you balance providing an open and honest service against guarding your own interests?
bmgold2
Well-known member
4metals said:
As a non-moderator, I would start a new thread and quickly make 2 or 3 placeholder posts. Then, knowing I had the first few posts to work with, I'd copy the posts from here that fit the new thread and edit (paste) them into the start of the fresh thread. Might be a better way to do it if you are a moderator but this way should work if done before it gets too long.
This could really increase the amount of information on this forum. Much of that information is already here somewhere if you hunt hard enough. Some stuff is only mentioned and never got a thread of its own. Specifically, I'm thinking of the PVC to HCl pyrolysis that NoIdea (Deano) talked about here:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=10158&start=30
My own very small scale experiments with that idea were very encouraging. I just need a better way of trapping the gases produced in water. It also seemed to produce an oil or tar. A chain of bubbling chambers should trap the oil in the first stages and still allow enough of the HCl gas through to make cleaner acid in the later vessels of water.
Maybe I should make the "interesting thread" on at least a small scale DIY hydrochloric acid production? I happen to have some scrap PVC pipe laying around and I think the insulation on wires might be PVC. Not sure if any other common scrap plastics would work. Maybe a thread specifically about dealing with waste plastic would be good? Around here, plastic is hard to recycle. Only one recycling bin around (that I know of) even takes any and that is NOT for scrap plastic. Only the certain numbered plastic bottles. Even cleanly burning it as well as using the heat to do other work sounds better than dumping it in the ground. If it resulted in some free acid then all the better.
Splitting the thread is not a problem. I've already PMd 4metals about it and I'll split the smelting portion off after I get his response.bmgold2 said:
This thread will serve well to generate ideas and suggestions for other threads that we can split off as they develop.
Dave
Justin,
I work as a consultant for a straight fee plus expenses. My fee is a daily rate and I try to give an accurate estimate of the time it will take to accomplish our goals. I always get a retainer and bill in pre agreed increments. If the client is happy with the end result they pay the last invoice, I have never had a problem with that. I do not charge for follow up support if it can be accomplished by email, text, or telephone conversation. And I support my clients as long as they need it.
I do make sure they have the proper training to do the job. I had one client who thought he could learn it all in 2 days and receive a lifetime of support. Well if he had learned enough in 2 days I would have no problem. But he learned very little and thought he could just pester me ad infinitum. It don't work like that. He was told he needed at least 8 days of hands on instruction or the follow up support would be unfair to me. He balked, I didn't waver, and he does not refine today. He was the only one I ever had issue with.
I always choose not to consider guarding my own interests. I will teach a client anything they want to know that I can help them with. I have found that even by giving information away for free here on the forum that business oriented people who are serious about processing on their own would rather just hire a consultant and pay the price. This may sound counter intuitive but it works for me. It may be different for others but it has been what I have experienced.
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4metals said:
Unfortunately, my client simply did not have the temperament to let him advance within refining,very talented at arguing his superiority and getting kit but far to aspirational to be of much use in the lab.
It took me a year and a half to develop a system that I would consider effective.Most other refiner's consider the process worth keeping to them self's and I have never seen it discussed in detail.
So I thought a running percentage was in order as the offer was to run a well-funded lab.
oops.
I can understand someone as well thought of as yourself being paid a good flat rate by large refineries that are already up and running.
Something to aspire to after another twenty years study.
kurtak
Well-known member
FrugalRefiner said:
Thanks Dave --- I will be adding to the smelting thread after you have split it off to its own discussion so as not to clutter this thread
Kurt
