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Hi Folks
This is a project I am interested in very much
I have e-mailed the company for the machine and they said that they don't sell it in the way you see it in the picture that we have it here in this forum
So I would have to modify it
If anyone have the details to help me out please post it here.

Also I see that Gold Trail is having problems
I guess you are doing this in a different way

I would really like to have a cell like this that will work
Thanks
 
Everything you need to know is pretty much listed in this thread some where. The website shows video's that might help. It's explains everything in detail.

http://www.nulltime.com/zincplating/site_map.html
 
If you want bigger try barrel plating. http://www.singletoncorp.com/portable_barrels.html
 
Hi Palladium
Thanks for that link
Do you think it would be possible to throw in a bunch of plated stuff and have it deplated
 
golddie,

Just remember that electrical contact has to be made to every gold plated portion. Solid metal parts, like pins, work well. It wouldn't work on fingers for 2 reasons (1) You won't make contact to every finger. (2) The circuit board material will be attacked by the sulfuric.
 
BTW What about the contact (anode) material? Will it be attacked by sulfuric?
And how can one make a constant contact to the pins without current disrupting from time to time? One should use a spring?
 
SapunovDmitry,

I used to use non-coated bare racks, made of 1/4" brass square stock, with carbon steel (not stainless) piano wire spring contacts, to hold the parts I was stripping (old side braze CPU packages). Neither brass nor steel was attacked after several hundred cycles. The only things I know of that are attacked by the sulfuric, when they are made the anode, are Au, Ag, Pd, Ni (slightly), and Co (slightly). In another forum, finishing.com, I, just today, posted a method of using this to strip gold from aluminum, without attacking the aluminum.

I have had problems with stainless and Ni or Co superalloys. The nickel in non-magnetic stainless may be attacked. Once, I used a magnetic stainless beaker as the cathode and it developed holes at the solution level. Therefore, it may also eat chromium. If too much Ni or Co builds up in the solution, it will stop stripping gold.

At the solution level, you could experience slight etching on a rack or wire due to the moisture and/or oxygen in the air, especially in high humidity. Concentrated sulfuric is a common lab desiccant and will absorb water from the air. Therefore, if you don't stir occasionally, the top layer of solution will be more dilute. At some concentration, the absorption will stop. In my experience, after using the same solution daily for at least 2 years, the total amount of water absorbed doesn't effect the selective stripping of the gold.

To prevent attack on most metals, don't dilute the acid too much and don't let it get too hot. On another forum, a guy experimented with battery acid (35% H2SO4). Although the gold still formed a powder, the copper under the gold dissolved very rapidly. At some concentration, the Cu, or other base metals, will start dissolving - the concentration is probably different for each metal. I really don't know what these threshold levels are. To avoid a problem, I wouldn't add more than 10% water to the concentrated H2SO4 (I usually only add 5% water - a little water will make it strip faster). I prefer the temperature to not be over about 43C (110F).

The original patent, 2185858, was for stripping Au, Ag, or Pd from Zn, Cu, brass or bronze. It was not for Au recovery, but for removing faulty plating, without damage to the substrate, so that the parts could be replated with fresh gold.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=L3FVAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false

If you are stripping pins in a standard tumbling plating barrel (see the Singleton Corp. link that Palladium gave above - the one I owned was a Singleton and was nearly identical to the one in the photo - they're expensive), using a dangler, button, or rod contact, only about 1/3 of the pins make contact at any given time. No problem. Eventually, all will make contact and all will be stripped. When plating in one of these barrels, they only apply 1/3 as much current as they would if the same amount of parts were on a rack. Therefore, to get the same plating thickness, they triple the time. The same logic would apply to barrel stripping as opposed to rack stripping.

Chris
 
goldsilverpro said:
When plating in one of these barrels, they only apply 1/3 as much current as they would if the same amount of parts were on a rack. Therefore, to get the same plating thickness, they triple the time. The same logic would apply to barrel stripping as opposed to rack stripping.

Chris

That just makes so much sense. You can run 3 times the volume, while only drawing 1/3 amperage needed. Just adjust your time intervals. This means your rectifier is not constantly overloaded or at max draw time. This would also lead to lower acid temperatures wouldn't it ?

Chris, Did you notice that will the Barrel plating process that you overall gold consumption for say 100,000 pieces or some large volume would run higher than when plated on a rack all at the same time. I'm figuring that will barrel plating their is just a little more uneven plating thickness on some parts more than others. It would only make sense in large volumes though. But then again i think that's the purpose of barrel plating. :p
 
Ralph,

That just makes so much sense. You can run 3 times the volume, while only drawing 1/3 amperage needed. Just adjust your time intervals. This means your rectifier is not constantly overloaded or at max draw time. This would also lead to lower acid temperatures wouldn't it ?

Actually, it has nothing to do with overloading the rectifier. Let's assume you have a certain type of gold plating bath that provides the best plating at a current density of 10 amps/square foot (asf) of surface area on the parts. Let's say that the total surface area of all the parts you are running in a load add up to 1 square foot and, at 10 asf, to get the gold thickness you want, it would take 15 minutes. If you ran them on a rack, you would simply adjust the current to 10 amps and remove the rack after 15 minutes. However, in a plating barrel, it is well known in the plating industry that, in general, only 1/3 of the parts make contact at any given time. Therefore, if you were to apply 10 amps, the parts in contact would have a current density (CD) of 30 asf, which would surely burn the parts. To counteract this, you only apply 3.33 amps and triple the time to 45 minutes.

I am speaking of averages. Depending on such variables as the shape of the part, the 1/3 thing could be a little off. It might be 25% or 40%. After running several batches of the same parts, the astute operator will make adjustments to the amperage and the time. However, the total number of amp-minutes (amps x time) will remain the same.

Chris, Did you notice that will the Barrel plating process that you overall gold consumption for say 100,000 pieces or some large volume would run higher than when plated on a rack all at the same time. I'm figuring that will barrel plating their is just a little more uneven plating thickness on some parts more than others. It would only make sense in large volumes though. But then again i think that's the purpose of barrel plating.

Except for the plating efficiency of the particular gold bath (which is a constant for a particular type of bath - assuming the bath is up to par), the gold consumption is only related to amps x time = amp-minutes. In the example above, on a rack, the gold consumption would be directly related to 10 x 15 = 150 amp-minutes. In a barrel, it would be related to 3.33 x 45 = 150 amp-minutes. Same number of amp-minutes. Therefore, in each case, the same theoretical amount of gold consumption.

In a barrel, the plating would be a little more uniform than on a rack. On a rack, e.g., the parts on the perimeter of the rack would receive more current than those in the center of the rack. In a barrel, everything constantly changes position and every part ends up receiving about the same average amount of current over a period of time.

If a valence 1 gold bath operates at 100 efficiency (which it never really does), it will deposit .122 grams of gold for each amp-minute. For the example above, it will deposit 18.37 grams of gold in 150 amp-minutes, whether the parts are plated on a rack or in a barrel (theoretically, at least). It's all amps and time (Coulomb's Law). When stripping, it's the same thing in reverse, although the efficiency may vary more in practice. Amps and time.

The main purpose of barrel plating is to eliminate the labor that would be required to rack or wire the parts. The same with stripping.

Your friend, Chris
 
Firewalker's Pictures :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=3805
 
VERY NICE. The only drawback I can see is that it appears you use about 3 gallons of sulphuric acid. Is that close? Sulphuric in an electrolytic cell never wear out? It does appear it gets dirty over time. How do you clean/filter it? If you have finished the 3000 grams of pins, how much gold did you recover? WOW, this is really interesting. Thanks for sharing.
 
Palladium said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgVPWmTFGFg <--- gives me: "GOLD PLATING STRIPPING CELL..."
This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated due to multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement from claimants including:

XOS Technologies, Inc. d/b/a XOS Digital
XOS Technologies, Inc. d/b/a XOS Digital
XOS Technologies, Inc. d/b/a XOS Digital

Sorry about that.
:(

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=6227&p=54755#p54755

Firewalker's Pictures :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=3805
 
bswartzwelder said:
VERY NICE. The only drawback I can see is that it appears you use about 3 gallons of sulphuric acid. Is that close? Sulphuric in an electrolytic cell never wear out? It does appear it gets dirty over time. How do you clean/filter it? If you have finished the 3000 grams of pins, how much gold did you recover? WOW, this is really interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I am not sure which cell you are referring to,but here is some information on Firewalkers cell.
The acid came from reducing a 5 gallon container of battery acid,to 90%+ sulfuric.The result was a little less than 7000ml of usable acid.If memory serves, it took about 1 gallon to fill the container enough to an appropriate level.You could deplate about 1 oz of gold,before the acid would be too saturated to continue using.Once stripped of the gold,the acid can be reduced again,and reused several times before becoming too saturated with base metals,to continue using.Firewalker was attempting to figure out a way to plate out the base metals,when he retired from refining.The tumbler was Firewalkers answer,to lack of continuous continuity with pins in a cell.
After he built the first cell,I followed suit with a slightly larger cell,but soon ran into problems with keeping continuity.Firewalker gave the original cell to me,to thank me for helping him.I used it several times at first,with no problems,but decided it meant more to me to keep it as a trophy,considering the tumbler was his creation.
He is a very smart,and giving man,unfortunately he has run into some bad health problems in the last couple of years.He still calls me several times a week,just to "check on Johnny".I would be very sad without those calls.
 
mic said:
Once stripped of the gold,the acid can be reduced again,and reused several times before becoming too saturated with base metals,to continue using.

i had this problem too. this is what i did. after recording starting volume, i diluted the acid heavily with water at least X5 and let it stand a couple of days. i then evaporated rapidly at a fast boil and when the original volume was nearing, green crystals started forming and continued until the liquid was almost clear like thin honey.i then decanted when cool leaving the crystals behind as they didn't re-dissolve.
 
Geo said:
mic said:
Once stripped of the gold,the acid can be reduced again,and reused several times before becoming too saturated with base metals,to continue using.

i had this problem too. this is what i did. after recording starting volume, i diluted the acid heavily with water at least X5 and let it stand a couple of days. i then evaporated rapidly at a fast boil and when the original volume was nearing, green crystals started forming and continued until the liquid was almost clear like thin honey.i then decanted when cool leaving the crystals behind as they didn't re-dissolve.
The only problem I see with doing that is that the boiling tempurature of sulfuric rises,as the purity increases.So by the time you get to around,95% it takes an aweful lot of heat to boil it.When we reduced it,we used several 2000ml beakers and kept the sulfuric just below a boil.We only took it up to about 94-95% because of the amount of energy it takes to bring it to 98%+.
 
Would it possible or practical to build a tumbler cell like the ones shown in this thread but make the following modifications? First use a large, flat plate of lead for the cathode. Next, lay fiberglass cloth over the cathode, then the rest of the tumbler cell. The idea here is that the fiberglass cloth will collect the powdered gold as it drops down through the holes in the basket making it easier than tearing everything down to recover the gold. Electrical current would pass through the fiberglass cloth. Yes, no?
 
bswartzwelder said:
Would it possible or practical to build a tumbler cell like the ones shown in this thread but make the following modifications? First use a large, flat plate of lead for the cathode. Next, lay fiberglass cloth over the cathode, then the rest of the tumbler cell. The idea here is that the fiberglass cloth will collect the powdered gold as it drops down through the holes in the basket making it easier than tearing everything down to recover the gold. Electrical current would pass through the fiberglass cloth. Yes, no?
That actually sounds like a good idea.Depending on the fiberglass mesh,the powder could potentially be wash and disolved directly in the fiberglass,then the mat could be rinsed into the auric chloride container,and the process could continue as planned.
 
"He is a very smart,and giving man,unfortunately he has run into some bad health problems in the last couple of years.He still calls me several times a week,just to "check on Johnny".I would be very sad without those calls."
Mic; Does he need help from the forum?
 
publius said:
Palladium said:
<--- gives me: "GOLD PLATING STRIPPING CELL..."
This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated due to multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement from claimants including:

XOS Technologies, Inc. d/b/a XOS Digital
XOS Technologies, Inc. d/b/a XOS Digital
XOS Technologies, Inc. d/b/a XOS Digital

Sorry about that.
:(

https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=6227&p=54755#p54755
Firewalker's Pictures :arrow: https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=3805


I still get pissed about that Youtube account. I was the first one posting refining video's to Youtube and that acct had over 1 million views! I got caught up back then in one of their purges! :x :x :x :x :x
 
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