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All,

Thank you for taking the time to write your concerns on this message board - and please know that I have read and taken seriously all the responses and PM's.

At this point there is no show. I am doing research into the world of e-waste gold removal, home refining, small scale refining (using outside refineries), and removing precious metals from recyclable sources. I believe that the key to success in anything is research and that is why I posted this message. Not to learn - and give away - your trade craft but to learn from those of you doing it and see what it's all about. This is not about teaching the public how to mix chemicals to extract metals nor is it about giving away the secrets to your sources. This is about showing an interesting world with unique characters.
I understand that many may not like the idea of exposing this world on television but someone is going to do it and I would rather it be me than another production company or network. And the reason is, I want to do it with respect- for both the people involved and the environmental concerns.

Also - please note, I'm not just looking for the home chemist... I'm looking for anyone who is finding and refining gold from "waste." I would be interested in chatting with anyone who goes to a local refinery to finish their process.

In conclusion, I am always open to hearing your thoughts - especially your concerns. Please know that this is not about teaching the public the process or encouraging irresponsible behavior, it's about showing how a few smart individuals are surviving in a tough economy.

If you have any thoughts, would like to participate, or offer helpful information please feel free to respond to this post publicly or via Private Message.

Michael
 
michaeldiscovery said:
All,

In conclusion, I am always open to hearing your thoughts - especially your concerns. Please know that this is not about teaching the public the process or encouraging irresponsible behavior, it's about showing how a few smart individuals are surviving in a tough economy.

Michael
Click to expand...

Also in conclusion this IS our concern and though you may say all you want about how it's not about teaching, anything one sees can be learned from. Knowing human nature, just the process of airing the show will open some people's eyes to the fact, where they were once blind. I chose, on my behalf to keep them blind.
 
The only people I see trying to get on this show are the ego driven one's that want to be on TV and don't care about this hobby at All!!! Enough said :evil:

Oh yeah and I'm new to this hobby but I have made some good friends and this is a tight nit community and I like it. All I can see is this show being bad for anyone who truly enjoys this and makes a little money once in awhile. I really hope whoever PM's you takes a good look inside before going through with a show.

Tyler
 
I am doing research into the world of e-waste gold removal, home refining, small scale refining (using outside refineries)...

...someone is going to do it and I would rather it be me than another production company or network...

...I'm not just looking for the home chemist... I'm looking for anyone who is finding and refining gold from "waste."
Click to expand...
It seems to me that the show you're describing has already been done. Watch National Geographic's "Meltdown".

Dave
 
This is not a post about refiners helping one another.
This is a post about commercial exploitation of the forum.
As such this post should be removed.in my opinion.
 
There is no secret in this craft, all the information is here in black and white for anybody to search and read. I, myself, couldn't care less if the information is shared or who reads it. That's not the point.

The point is, some of us are urban miners. Digging for gold in e-scrap. And, as the miners did back in the 1800s, we too would like to keep our mines location a secret.

The problem is, there is a type of person that focuses on the goal, not the journey. These type of people are in abundance it seems. They don't have the patience or self discipline to take the time to learn the proper way to extract PMs from scrap or deal with the waste after. That's if they get that far without poisioning themselves and those around them.
Gold fever can cause people to do irrational things, take shortcuts, cheat or steal... it's no different in recovery and refining.
 
It seems to me that it depends how much a show like this reveals. There would be a huge difference between "...put the powders in a beaker, add some acids, wait, siphon off the liquid..." and "...mix one part nitric acid and 3 parts hydrochloric acid, aka muriatic acid, to make aqua regia which will dissolve gold..."
Would it be focused on step-by-step how to get gold out of ewaste, or how people are able to get out of ewaste.
either way would produce more refiners and dry up ewaste sources, but one of them would force viewers to do at least some research and make it less likely they will kill themselves and others.
 
Again, this is not a show about chemistry or refining. It's about the people searching for gold and PM in unlikely places. It's not an educational show and we will not be giving a lesson on how to refine gold at home.

We're looking for people who do this for real - not just on a commercial level but as hobbyists and on small scale productions.

I encourage you to contact me if you have concerns or thoughts about this project. Do not rush to judgment. Part of doing research is understanding as much as I can, meeting and talking to as many people as possible, and learning as much of the world as possible.

I look forward to chatting with anyone who would like to share a bit of information about the world of PM "urban mining"

thank you,

Michael
 
Michael

First let my thank you for your interest in what we do here on the GRF & also let me say that Discovery has always be one of my favorite programs to watch along with programs like PBS/NOVA etc. These type programs are very informative & done with real professionalism & good taste --- not really in the same category as the so called "reality shows" (that seem to thrive on B.S. drama) which likely behind the first response fear you are seeing at the start here

And there is good reason for our fear of to much exposure to what we do - the biggest of which is people trying something at home that could VERY much put them, the people around them & the environment at great risk --- As it is - you would not believe how many people we have had come to this forum after watching a YouTube video (done by someone that didn't really know what they were doing) or buying an incomplete &/or even out right wrong instruction manual from someone on E-bay --- Such media is never complete - often wrong & never addresses safety concerns

These people then come here in trouble more often then not asking for help & when we try to get them headed in the right direction all to often they become combative because they don't want to hear that WHAT they did is was all wrong - but rather they want to hear what WENT wrong in what they did --- another words they think they know what they are doing (because they saw it on YouTube or bought the E-bay manual) & they just don't understand what went wrong - & you just can't convince them that doing this is NOT as simple as watch a YouTube video or buy a few page E-bay manual - but to really do this takes MUCH research & study --- So then they think we should become their personal mentors & answer "endless" questions with out take their own time to research/study enough to even know the right questions to ask

YouTube & E-bay with their exposure has caused us enough problems --- then you come along & tell us you would like to expose this to tens of millions more in a Network TV BROADCAST --- so maybe now you can see our concern & why you have received the response you have so far

However - that's not to say there's no flip side to this coin --- I can see a positive side to airing such a program as you propose & Discovery may be the right network if such a thing is going to be aired --- I think you are right Michael - sooner or later - someone is going to air this & I would hate to see it be one of the "Drama Reality TV networks - which would amount to nothing more the YouTube & E-bay reaching millions with drama at center stage in the beat of a heart

On the other hand - done right - such a program could shed some real & true light on this & help to reduce the wrong & misinformation out there - Here is a short list of positive things I can think of to start with

(1)Yes there are PMs in electronics (& other things you throw away)
(2)there's not as much as you think (no you are not going to get rich quick & easy tearing apart a couple computers)
(3)but yes they should be recycled by responsible experienced recyclers (includes hobby recyclers)
(4) no its not a quick &/or easy path to riches
(5)learning to do it takes MUCH study & research
(6)to do it takes a fair investment for equipment, supplies & chemicals
(7)doing it can be vary dangerous (if you don't know what your are doing)
(8)no you can't do it in an apartment, in your kitchen, or basement etc.
(9)watch out for scams that say other wise (& scams in general)

Yes fellow forum members I think Michael is right when he say's - sooner or later someone is going to air this - the question is - will it be DRAMA Joe - or real refiners :?:

Kurt
 
I make my whole living off recycling E-waste. Full time 365 days a year. Sometimes there are 18 hour days, some days we don't step foot in the facility. Everything from huge data centers to aunt Jenn's old PC, we do it all. We bring the equipment in, break it down, sort it out, and sell everything to local recyclers and refiners. We have recycled millions of pounds of E-waste, 18 years of it.

We do not refine anything. Nope, nothing. Several reasons come into play. First, I don't feel I want to invest all the time it would take to learn how to do it correctly and safely. Second, I make a pretty good living doing just what I am doing. I'm not rich by no means, but I live good. Third, I really don't have the time to do it all. It takes about all my time just to keep up with the workload we have.

The reason I say this is to show that even though we don't refine the PM's, there still is good money to be made just doing what we are doing. It's not easy, it's not cheap, and it's not for everyone. Between trucks, insurance, fuel, labor, and all the other overhead, it's work. The last show NG had on called "Meltdown" was a joke. Showed some guys out buying up stuff, a few seconds of them taking it apart, maybe a second or two of the actual process of refining it, most time was spent on the assay and the "Big payout". Laugh! The "profits" we unrealistic to say the least.

I don't have a problem with Discovery doing a series on this type of work. I just hope that if the program does come to be, that they would show how much time is required to learn the methods and reactions. How much work and scrap it takes to make a gold or silver button.And that they will present it for what it really is, a lot of work for what little you get.
 
Well said Silver, and I agree with it all except,
I will have to side with some of the others as to "no show" would be even better.
Which after thinking about it, you most likely feel the same.
If there had to be a show, they should include a segment on what happens if this stuff gets shipped overseas.
 
silversaddle1 said:
The last show NG had on called "Meltdown" was a joke.
Click to expand...

silversaddle - was that the show were they show some guy that recovered the platinum from spark plugs - I ask because I didn't see it but a friend was telling me about it - from what he told me about it - yes it sounded like a joke
 
kurtak said:
silversaddle1 said:
The last show NG had on called "Meltdown" was a joke.
Click to expand...

silversaddle - was that the show were they show some guy that recovered the platinum from spark plugs - I ask because I didn't see it but a friend was telling me about it - from what he told me about it - yes it sounded like a joke
Click to expand...

Yes, that was one episode. There was some things that seemed truthful on the show, but a lot of it was, well, IDK!!!
 
silversaddle1 said:
kurtak said:
silversaddle1 said:
The last show NG had on called "Meltdown" was a joke.
Click to expand...

silversaddle - was that the show were they show some guy that recovered the platinum from spark plugs - I ask because I didn't see it but a friend was telling me about it - from what he told me about it - yes it sounded like a joke
Click to expand...

Yes, that was one episode. There was some things that seemed truthful on the show, but a lot of it was, well, IDK!!!
Click to expand...

That's the problem with it - whether its YouTube - an E-bay short cut manual - or a TV show --- there is always SOME truth - but only enough to inspire people that know nothing to try this & then because they are working on only a fraction of what they need to know the find them selves in trouble or worse end up hurting them selves & or others

That is why for the most part I to am against being a part of anything that is going to promote/inspire others to try something that can/will hurt them

On the other hand - if done right!!! - such a program could help (on a relatively large scale) over come a lot of the BS that's out there - Starting with - yes there is gold in your scrap electronics BUT

(1)no not a lot - it takes tons to get a few oz
(2)no its not a path to quick & easy wealth
(3)no the process is not easy
(4)yes the process can be vary dangerous
(5)no you can't take short cuts
(6)yes you have to do A LOT of research & study
(7)yes you have to invest money before you see money back
(8) no you can't do it in your apartment, kitchen or basement
(9)etc.

Putting a show together that would show "the truth" about this would take a co-op effort of a fair number of people that really know what they are doing with a fair amount time invested in planning & conditions of what must be aired in the program before the co-op agreed to production --- & as we know time is money & as we know the only place you are going to find a co-op of such people is here

Anything short of that would end up nothing but some clips of some individuals getting their 15 minutes of fame saying - hey look at me & what I can do - & people will go away from watching the show thinking - hey that looked easy - I can do that to --- WRONG

So - the question is - is Discovery willing to pay a co-op for its planning & production time - is Discovery willing to agree to terms set forth by the co-op of what is to be aired - & can you even put the co-op together

What I do know - is that right here on this forum we have the qualified people to make a honest & true depiction of what this is really about - starting at the top with legit refiners & brokers on down the line to legit hobby refiners & scrappers along with an in house attorney to draw up a contract between co-op & Discovery

Of course thats just my opinion - I've been known to be wrong though

Kurt
 
having dealt with the producers of a show called "junk raiders" i believe nothing these TV types say, they will exploit you at every chance they get

i agree this post should be deleted !!!

and i Can Not see Harold sitting on the fence with a electronic shotgun keeping the perspective 1,000,000 new members looking to get rich over night on the single computer they found buried in there garage.


(Dave C.)
 
Very much agree!!! I see no good from another stupid reality drama. That's what it's all about, if you don't have drama you don't have ratings. This will turn into a s#!t show if this show goes through and I see us losing a lot of valuable members because they are sick of the same old questions that are asked time and time again.

I'm new here and I'm sick of seeing/answering the same old questions. I have studied my butt off and learned a lot without EVER starting a thread with a question I had. The 200 some post's I have are mostly general chat or gallery, some are even answering questions for people, and guess how I am able to answer these question? Because I studied here and it's already here, I typed in the search box and found it on my own. Yes I read through lots of meaningless stuff sometimes to find the answer but it's there. If this show happens this site will be flooded with new members demanding answer's to questions that have already been answered if they would just take the time and read!!!

Never mind the fact that for a hobbyist refiner like myself, scrap will dry up or be to expensive to get because everyone will keep it themselves or say "hey I saw a show that showed a guy getting gold out of a ram stick just like this, and he got an ounce out of 1 stick so I want $500 a lb" Sorry for the rant but I don't see this show doing the community we already have any good.

Tyler
 
I have contacted the OP about this show,so I could hear in his own words what the show is really about.The forum has survived through countless public displays of our craft(refining).There has been so much misinformation spread or put out there on the internet, that we need this chance to try and correct some of it.I myself want the chance to teach it the right way and the chance to show how much work and effort it really takes to get just one gram of refined gold.I've been refining since late 2008 and have yet to break even(I'm getting very close though).I have invested a little over $1,000.00 in this craft and through patients and shear perseverance have finally gotten my total up to $756.00.I know,whats my point? The point is that if Meltdown down didn't break us(with there fakeness),what really makes you think a Discovery channel show will.Micheal has verbally assured me that it will not be fake like Meltdown,and that its not about our chemical process.It's about the character,hunt for materials,the actual time and effort it takes to strip and harvest the materials,and then skip the chemicals and straight to melt and payout.He said they don't want the show to be focused on the melt and payout like Meltdown was,he wants that part to only be about 5-10 minutes at most.Like its already been pointed out,if they don't make the show someone else will and chances are it will lean toward fakeness when that happens.This is my $0.2 cents worth.


P.S If there is any members interested in doing this show can you Please send me a PM.If he can get 5 people within a days travel from each other the shows possible.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44
 
These people are all business, and with that comes contracts and not contracts made up by you but by them and they will remain the controlling party throughout. A verbal assurance is nothing in the real world, they will do or say whatever they think they need to, to get what they want, anything more would mean relinquishing control and that ain't gonna happen brutha. I do agree with your sig line, very fitting.
 
All I can say is this is a freakin joke!!!!!!!!!! Nothing good will come of a show. We don't want more people than already have an interest knowing how we get our material. So because you are close to finally breaking even it's OK for you to go on a show and teach how some people of this forum make a living and take money out of their pockets. Yeah good idea. I have only been doing this 6 months and have already made a few grand doing this for fun, but that doesn't give me the right to go on a show and take money out of people's pockets to fill my own.

Harold or any mod will you please delete this thread. It has nothing to do with helping one another it only has to do with a few trying to benefit from a show and making money for their own. Its already been said it will have no showing of refining and chemicals. So it has no business here.

Tyler
 

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