Unknown mixture help needed safe disposal

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J

jabukanac

Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
21
OK need some help of doing the right thing
friend of mine give me 2l of green copper saturated solution after dissolving silver plated spoons and forks he gave up on recovering silver using HCL there is a amount of silver flakes at the bottom of a coffee pot, solution is green but he added handful of urea in this mixture (someone told him) to do this
i have search and cannot find any references on CUCL2 + NH2CONH2 reaction (as a bad thing happening)
question is should i try to save this silver or just dispose this mixture (safely)

what would be safest way of neutralizing and disposal i do have chemical disposal drum available

anyone to advise on this appreciated
 
Filter the solution and save the sludge it's where any values should be, the sludge should be rinsed with clean water and that added to the rest of the solution then add steel that should cement the copper out of solution, if you then add lye that should drop most other metals that could cause problems.
 
Thanks nickvc i have scoop all silver sludge and washed with tap water numerous times also have the rest of the silver plate, spoons and forks scraped as much as possible and also washed with water i have filtered solution twice and washed with water (filter) which has small amount of water added to solution i will drop copper out of solution if this is the end of it (i dont know) is it possible to rejuvenate this as a CuCl2 or urea did a damage already i was going to reuse as a AP leach if possible , and there should not be any other contaminant as i can see that all flatware was silver plate over clean copper (now) :?:
 
Thanks butcher great read on dealing with waste but my question was more of a experience base if i can reuse solution after mixture in question but learning how to dispose chemical waste safely is a always a good thing i do have knowledge to some extent dealing with chemicals as i used to work with battery rejuvenation ,
dealing with other chemicals mixtures is a something i have been studying for a while now specially on this forum i have read many posts and discussion here and i find a lot of necessary hostility towards new posts due to duplication with questions already answered previously i do understand that may frustrate many of the active members here but i think that every question concerning knowledge how to should be addressed with care as you and others already do
i have been long time on this forum doing nothing more than reading and learning before i made a decision to place few posts my self i agree that i have lot to learn but i refuse to do this my self any more because lot of people on this forum have more knowledge and experience that can help me and others doing things the right thing from the beginning, ( chemistry is magic and fun mixed together but also deadly to us and the environment so my approach is do the right thing or don't do it at all ) i know i must be bubbling allot but that is how i approach things in my life

anyway i appreciate any help offered on this forum specially to few dedicated individuals we all know ho they are
 
I'm not the one really to answer this as I don't use AP but I gather that so long as you use an air bubbler you can rejuvenate it and I gather if you follow the proper processes to clean it, it can be used almost indefinitely. Not sure why urea was used its not something that I would associate with hydrochloric acid but with nitric or AR.
If you use the search function there's some really good posts on AP, it's uses and it's care, but as I don't use it the details are only vague to me whereas others are real experts with it.
 
Unknown mixture help needed safe disposal.
Is it possible to rejuvenate this as a CuCl2 or urea did a damage already i was going to reuse as a AP leach if possible?
jabukanac,

The reason I posted the link for dealing with waste was not only for your benefit but also to benefit others with this type of question, dealing with waste.

As far as I can see that is what you are dealing with, You do not know what all is in a solution someone gave you, you state he used it in dissolving silver plated spoons and forks, which can be composed of many different metals, your solution may have some copper in it but it is probably a concoction of many base metals, It is not the copper II chloride leach (Acid peroxide) any longer.

Then you state he added Urea which is a carbon based organic compound, which can easily break down to several other compounds in a mixture of acid and metals, some of which are ammonia compounds which can form ammine complexes with the metals (some of which can become explosive in certain circumstances).

Basically as far as I would be concerned you have a waste solution to dispose of, you can collect any values then deal with the waste.

Also I would be careful with silver after adding ammonia, or in this case urea, it may be possible some of the silver may now be dissolved in your waste solution from the urea (forming ammonium compounds), acidifying a sample with HCl will help you determine if silver is in solution.
 
Thanks again butcher this helps i was skeptical about reusing solution due to unknown chemical reaction between HCL+ Urea i have found some answers from another forum chemtech and i am sure that there is no danger of explosive in it ,wihch is good ,

i have found exactly what was done to this process
2kg of silver plated spoons and forks soaked in 2000ml 32% Hcl +1000ml of 11-14% sulfuric acid( recovered from disposed batteries) this was soaked and periodically mixed in a bucket for 5 weeks
after solution had not much effect after that time he added half a cup of Urea (someone told him that urea will neutralize acid and then he can drop the silver out of solution) i have told him that he should stop at this stage but being 76 years old man and scraping metals for last 50 years he was stubborn he is a family friend and i give him $45.00 (which is a cost of 2kg copper and rest for his chemicals just to get this dangerous stuff out of his house)
now just to update on what i have done so far ,
filtered all solids out of this dark green solution washed twice with HCL and scooped most of the silver flakes out and left them in a fresh HCl for 24hrs after that i give them good 3 water washes and water was clean content of silver flakes is about 16gr

also i have 500ml of this dark green solution in a beaker with iron rod dropping copper out it has done miracle beaker is half way full of copper sponge
solution is getting clear after two days

so to make this short i have no other use of this solution if i cannot reuse as a copper leach (and i do not believe that solution contain any silver in it as is saturated with copper) so i will neutralize the rest and handed over to my local depot marked as a Iron chloride
thanks again it was my good intention to save the old man and to reuse any chemicals left over if possible but i was doubtful that this is a smart idea my instinct tells me that solution is nothing more than copper chloride but there is no way that i can be sure so it has to go end of story
 
If it had sulfuric mixed in, I highly doubt it can be used in the AP process. Especially used sulfuric from car batteries, I'd suspect lots of lead in there as well.

As butcher as said, drop the copper and raise the PH to drop other metals and neutralize the liquid, then dispose of according to your local regs.
 
Hi all just to update on this chemical soup i got from a friend ???
i was ready to give up on it completely and dispose safely ? but i did try something else , i have diluted this solution which was about 3000ml of HCL+week H2so4+small amount of urea , so i added 4l of???? in a 10l bucket with holes (same process what Steve uses for processing fingers in AP on his video)
small bucket has holes and is placed in large 20l bucket ,now the interesting part i removed all silver plated stuff and washed in hcl they all turn silver in color after few minutes ,now solution was dark green in color and no reaction was happening except turning all silver plates to copper color after sitting in for few hrs ,
anyhow i have placed all items in this new diluted solution which is now about 6l of light green emerald color after a 24hrs soaking absolutely no reaction was happening so i added 15 ml of?????????? and give it a good twists of the buckets 10hrs later i have gone back to mix again and miracle happened bucket was full of silver flakes about 85% of items plate was striped one good shake and i had 98% of silver plate of few small places where silver was showing goldish color was still attached but did come of with toothbrush ,what i am very happy with is that solution did not dissolve any copper or bras base material, color of the solution is still same emerald lite green,next day i have placed another lot of EPSN stuff in the same solution next day or 24hrs latter same thing flakes everywhere no base metal has gone to my solution (as much i can tell by the color of it) two weeks later i have process 6 large lots of silver plated items ,spoons, forks, knifes, cups, jugs, all up close to 35kg of silver plate flatware i have silver flakes sitting in HCL bath for further refining , very pleasant experience with this mixture which is still in the same condition lite emerald green ,i will save this and try to process more stuff when i get some

thanks for being with me on this subject from the beginning and please do not get me wrong i am not advising anyone to try this as is not really proper mixture
i am just sharing my experience after hitting a brick wall with unknown solution

i will try to replicate same process in the future when i have some more silver plated stuff

and i think that 2l of ??????
diluted with 4l of ???????
and 30 ml of ???????
should be all i need
 
I must admit that the mix of acids to me seems to point to a total failure in removing silver off plated materials, had the mix been sulphuric and nitric I believe that would work but it's not a mix I'd like to try without very good extraction and plenty of personal safety gear.
The mix of sulphuric and nitric also needs to be hot and highly concentrated not a good combination for home recoveries, there was someone here in the UK doing this but I think the fall in the silver price has curtailed his activities either that or the acids got him!
We have had numerous attempts at finding a way to strip plated silver and not even our esteemed senior members have found a safe way yet to do so,so I find it hard to believe the mix your saying you have has worked. Hydrochloric alone will not touch silver, sulphuric will dissolve silver if hot and concentrated neither of which was what your claiming to have used so I just can't see how it stripped the silver.
 
Thanks Nickvc for being suspicious but as i said i have done my 6 lots in this solution and have my silver plate flaked of easily i am not saying that this will work again becouse i do not know for sure but just to let you know i have my silver in flakes cleaned pretty good in Hcl washes and ready for my nitric acid , also i have made $140 selling striped items as copper 2 to recycle r $4.00 per kilo so if you go back and read all of posts you will find that this mixture is very unusual anyway i was just stating now that i have solution in my bucket which is
about 7l of this (what i know)
HCL32% 2l
about 1l of (unknown H2so4 recovered from batteries)
and apparently handfull of Urea added
this was original mixture which did poorly with 2kg of silver plated items

what i did and works like magic now was i added 4l of ???
and 30 ml of ?????
this mixture works now almost instantly few minutes after silver plate is submerged starts flaking off some of the silver plates but most of it is done in 24hrs and my solution does not touch much of the base metals at all (copper and brass )did dissolve one of the small spoons instantly it was silver plate over alloy
i will try to get some picks of this soon and i am not trying to claim that i know how to repeat this process again only saying that has worked as magic
so being skeptical is good and i promise that if i do manage to repeat this process again and it works the way it does now i will share all with everybody on here as you stated many have failed to find viable and profitable recovery
so if i do have good chem solution again i will document every step and amount of it backed up with photos and reaction , for now this has produced me some money back and some clean silver flakes and yes i think you did not read all of my posts there is no silver dissolved at all only flakes large ones to and again take notice that solution is not touching as much base material some of the large flakes still had some red copper stuck to it i have not kept flatware for longer than a day because there is no need for that 95% of silver plate flaked of just by mixing and the rest without any effort wit small toothbrush ,
i appreciate your comment and understand your disbelieve that it worked that good but the facts are her in my flask clean flakes and unbelievable clean copper looking cutlery sold as copper N#2 for $4 per kg
 
Jabukanak I'm not doubting that you have the silver off but I am dubious that the stated acids did the job, it makes little sense to me but then I'm not a chemist so perhaps one of our resident chemists can see how it worked and give an explanation. The only other explanation I can see is if the mix isn't as you were advised but perhaps we never will know.
If you can do it again creating your own solution from scratch then perhaps you will have cracked one of the biggest problems in silver recovery.
 

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