Waste disposal questions

[aferland66]

Hello all, I've been letting my gold fingers sit in HCL with an air pump for a while now, about half of them are off. I recovered a first batch of them by switching buckets, rinsing with water and using a paper filter to catch the foils, it worked pretty well. The water I used turned blue and I neutralized it with baking soda, so now I have a blue sludge at the bottom of my bucket with pretty clean liquid on top.

I'm wondering what the sludge is made of? It should be some mixed salt, I'm just not sure what. I'm not done yet so I'm keeping the water and sludge for future rinses, but I would need to know how to process that to either recoup something if feasible, or at least make it as safe as possible.

Basically I'm looking to learn how to threat and dispose of this wash water waste, and eventually the AP solution.

Speaking of AP solution, how long can i use the same AP solution before it becomes useless and saturated?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello all, I've been letting my gold fingers sit in HCL with an air pump for a while now, about half of them are off. I recovered a first batch of them by switching buckets, rinsing with water and using a paper filter to catch the foils, it worked pretty well. The water I used turned blue and I neutralized it with baking soda, so now I have a blue sludge at the bottom of my bucket with pretty clean liquid on top.

I'm wondering what the sludge is made of? It should be some mixed salt, I'm just not sure what. I'm not done yet so I'm keeping the water and sludge for future rinses, but I would need to know how to process that to either recoup something if feasible, or at least make it as safe as possible.

Basically I'm looking to learn how to threat and dispose of this wash water waste, and eventually the AP solution.

Speaking of AP solution, how long can i use the same AP solution before it becomes useless and saturated?

Have you read the links I gave you in your welcome?
There is a whole section on waste treatment and disposal.

Anyway, add a bit of HCl and most of the sludge should dissolve.

 

[Martijn]

I'm wondering what the sludge is made of

Probably copper carbonate.

 

[aferland66]

Have you read the links I gave you in your welcome?
There is a whole section on waste treatment and disposal.

Anyway, add a bit of HCl and most of the sludge should dissolve.

I found it, sorry It's been a while since I started this, and I'll be honest, my head is spinning from all the different information that is out there. I'm reading the waste disposal now.

Thanks

 

[Darkthirty]

I found it, sorry It's been a while since I started this, and I'll be honest, my head is spinning from all the different information that is out there. I'm reading the waste disposal now.

Thanks

"my head is spinning from all the different information that is out there."
I'm self educated for the most part. When learning new subject matter it's best to find the most inclusive information and absorb all of it from one source before searching for different input. The "facts" that keep resurfacing can be assumed to be true, the bizarre info is not necessarily false but should be investigated if logical. If it is new and loaded with hyperbolic claims, it is usually false. Youtube will make you feel like a sparrow in a barnyard digging through manure for a kernel of truth. Slow down, get it right, this hobby will kill you if you're not careful.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I found it, sorry It's been a while since I started this, and I'll be honest, my head is spinning from all the different information that is out there. I'm reading the waste disposal now.

Thanks

I've posted this a number of times, but it seems appropriate here. I call it the "Stages of Learning".

At first, you read a little and it seems to be simple and make sense.

As you read more, you start to see other processes, and conflicting information. There's so much new information, it can get very confusing.

As you continue, you're able to sort out the conflicting information, and it starts to make sense.

After much study you'll start to feel like you're really getting a handle on it all. You can answer most questions on the forum.

Then you read a post from Lou, and you realize how much you still don't know.

Dave

 

[aferland66]

OK I read the post, but still got questions, the Acids mentioned does not identify what acids we are talking about. I'm pretty sure the process does apply to AP, but I'd rather ask then assume. I'm not doing this large scale so will not have enough left overs in the AP solution that I really want to recover anything, so my question is, can I simply go strait for neutralizing the acid to precipitate everything?

I should get Lye, Backing Soda or use my Metabisulfite to neutralize?

The left over solids, once dried, can be disposed of as what type of waste?

The leftover neutralized acid, is considered what type of waste so I know how to dispose of it?

As previously asked, how long can I run my AP solution before it is saturated?

Can the AP be cleaned without neutralizing so it lasts longer? I've heard of using electrolytic process to plate the metals, but have no idea if that can be done with the AP directly and if it would be usable after the process.

 

[andu]

Metabisulfite is too precious to use for neutralization, you would need a lot.
Baking soda is too reactive for my taste and lie is so caustic that it could potentially get your metals back into solution. It is possible, in theory, in practice it is a bit more tedious. I'd cement on aluminium, then get it with lye, or more selectively with different metals, I used alu for neutralization too.
Very slowly, guess it obvious tho?

 

[Yggdrasil]

OK I read the post, but still got questions, the Acids mentioned does not identify what acids we are talking about. I'm pretty sure the process does apply to AP, but I'd rather ask then assume. I'm not doing this large scale so will not have enough left overs in the AP solution that I really want to recover anything, so my question is, can I simply go strait for neutralizing the acid to precipitate everything?

I should get Lye, Backing Soda or use my Metabisulfite to neutralize?

The left over solids, once dried, can be disposed of as what type of waste?

The leftover neutralized acid, is considered what type of waste so I know how to dispose of it?

As previously asked, how long can I run my AP solution before it is saturated?

Can the AP be cleaned without neutralizing so it lasts longer? I've heard of using electrolytic process to plate the metals, but have no idea if that can be done with the AP directly and if it would be usable after the process.

AP can be regenerated almost infinitively.
Just add a bit of HCl and Air.

SMB can't be used for waste treatment as far as I know.

The two main steps are cementing on Iron to get the Copper out as clean as possible.

Then dropping the Hydroxides if the other metals as per procedure.
NaOH/KOH and Carbonate can be used.

If you read the thread again you might pick up new things that was overlooked the first time.

 

[Martijn]

the Acids mentioned does not identify what acids we are talking about. I'm pretty sure the process does apply to AP, but I'd rather ask then assume.

Mainly HCl and H2SO4, because nitric has no place in waste solutions. (should you still have nitric in your waste, then it's not waste! )
We do not use many other acids in gold and silver refining.
The best way for me is soda to create hydroxides and neutralize the acids. Lime also works.

 

[Martijn]

can I simply go strait for neutralizing the acid to precipitate everything?

And as Yggdrasil said: Why is your AP waste? Are you finished recovering gold from plated items?

 

[aferland66]

And as Yggdrasil said: Why is your AP waste? Are you finished recovering gold from plated items?

I just do not know how long you can use AP for, I thought it would get saturated with metals in solution. I actually have a small recycling place that will sell me all gold plated fingers from boards, so no I'm not done lol.

I've ashed cpus and flat packs from memory boards and can't see any gold in what's left, this is the first time panning also, so maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but the gold foils from the boards do seem to work well, so I'll concentrate on those for now.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I just do not know how long you can use AP for, I thought it would get saturated with metals in solution. I actually have a small recycling place that will sell me all gold plated fingers from boards, so no I'm not done lol.

I've ashed cpus and flat packs from memory boards and can't see any gold in what's left, this is the first time panning also, so maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but the gold foils from the boards do seem to work well, so I'll concentrate on those for now.

AP will hold for "ever".
But gets very dark, almost dark brown when saturated.
Air and HCl will refresh it.

If you add water, Cupric Chloride will crash out as a whitish sludge.

 

[Martijn]

I've ashed cpus and flat packs from memory boards and can't see any gold in what's left,

You will not see bonding wires without a loupe.
AP is actually copper chloride. And not HCl or H2O2.
It never goes bad, really.

 

[aferland66]

AP will hold for "ever".
But gets very dark, almost dark brown when saturated.
Air and HCl will refresh it.

If you add water, Cupric Chloride will crash out as a whitish sludge.

Does the water get broken down to form the Cupric Chloride so basically does not dissolve the HCL?

I guess not since it's CuCl2 so no H or O goes to make it. So does the water get used up the next time you use the AP? Can the reaction use the O?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Does the water get broken down to form the Cupric Chloride so basically does not dissolve the HCL?

I guess not since it's CuCl2 so no H or O goes to make it. So does the water get used up the next time you use the AP? Can the reaction use the O?

We do not do Alchemy so no.
Copper(I) chloride CuCl (Cuprous Chloride) is practically insoluble in water so it will drop out if the HCl concentration becomes too low.
With Oxygen and HCl it will convert to Cupric Chloride CuCl2 (Copper(II) chloride) which is soluble in water.

I think Martijn and a few others has a good description of the process in one of his posts.

The Oxygen comes from the Air bubbling or the air in general not the water.

 

[Martijn]

I think you mean this one by Adam Seychell:

 

[Martijn]

Does the water get broken down to form the Cupric Chloride so basically does not dissolve the HCL?

I guess not since it's CuCl2 so no H or O goes to make it. So does the water get used up the next time you use the AP? Can the reaction use the O?

No, cuprous chloride (A salt) is no soluble in water, but slightly in HCl. Cupric chloride however, is. Adding water changes the capacity of the solution to keep the salt in soluition.
Adding air and HCl to cuprous chloride makes cupric chloride, which will oxidize copper into cuprous chloride, oxygen combined with HCl turns it back into cupric chloride. And we're full circle in the process.
That's why it 'never' goes bad.
Until there are too many unwanted salts in there. Store in jerry can until next run.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I think you mean this one by Adam Seychell:

There are others too, I think.