What is SPC?

[Oz]

I got a lot of bluish tinted residue on the bottom

If you are dissolving sterling silver there are few possibilities of what your blue could be. If your solution was warmer when cementing on copper then cooled after all the silver was cemented you could have had copper nitrate crystals form. Washing your cement silver in hot water will dissolve the copper nitrate so it can be washed away. You may have also had some pieces of copper break off and get mixed in with your cement silver since you were using copper pipe if I remember correctly, this is why it is best to use thick copper for cementing instead of trying to pick them out.

I may have to be more precise with my nitric/sterling ratios

Sterling silver can vary more than one would expect but assuming actual sterling you will need for every 10 grams of sterling 14ml 70% nitric mixed with 14ml of distilled water. Use heat and add a bit of extra silver so you have a saturated solution without excess nitric. After you have filtered or decanted then proceed to cementation.

Even if all is done to perfection, you will only get 98-99% silver.

 

[Irons]

Irons:

http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/SLS3508

Not cheap but it's not tech grade either.

dickb

It's easier to make up the solution as you need it with Formic Acid and Sodium Hydroxide. Formic Acid is available on Ebay...or you can collect Ants come Spring.

Wood ash and Ant Stew, anyone?

Oak ash waiting and the fire ants will be back before you know it.

Before modern methods, Formic Acid was produced by distilling Ants. I bet Fire Ants would be a good source.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Before modern methods, Formic Acid was produced by distilling Ants. I bet Fire Ants would be a good source.

Ok Irons I'm sure you have an answer for this. How many oz's of ants to produce a given amount? And how would you distill the ants?

 

[shadybear]

Before modern methods, Formic Acid was produced by distilling Ants. I bet Fire Ants would be a good source.

Ok Irons I'm sure you have an answer for this. How many oz's of ants to produce a given amount? And how would you distill the ants?

does it matter if its a little butt or a big butt ant :twisted:

 

[Oz]

does it matter if its a little butt or a big butt ant

Of course not, it is not so much about quantity but concentration.

 

[Juan Manuel Arcos Frank]

LOL....come on,guys...Let us get some bottles of whisky and a big box of cool beer and let us talk about this bussines:

Butcher,a man with a huge experience in PM recovery is right,as always.Irons,a man which his philosophy is as sharp as an unsheathed sword,is right too.Barren Realms 007,one of the most intelligent men in this Forum,is right toz,a man who has provided many vauable knowledge,is right too.So,Cmethowusa,what do you have to do?,well,uncover our bottles,say CHEERS!!!!! and go to work:

First of all,if Mr. Steven Sackett said it then it is true,it is "MAGISTER DIXIE"(told by the Master,from latin) so cementation is the best way to recover silver from a nitrate silver solution.Cementation reaction is a reversible one,so you have to dilute the solution with distilled water to displace equilibrium´s reaction to silver formation.Try to use solid cooper bars and you will get 98-99% silver.

If you want pure silver then you have to use an electrolytic refining cell,construction and operation of this cell has been posted by GSP in this Forum.

If you add stannous chloride to a silver nitrate solution you will get a white precipitate of silver chloride,not metallic silver.Of course,you can add table salt to your filtrated silver nitrate solution and run the Karo syrup method which works well.

Let us say CHEERS!!! and send Shor International to hell.

Kindest regards.

Manuel

 

[cmethowusa]

I don't know much about Shor I. When I was reading some info I ran across ththe about SPC. I e-mailed them and their response was simply; "stannous chloride and we don't sell it."

I am a rookie at all this that's why I placed their reply on this forum. OZ recommended I use a heavier bar of copper to cement the silver. He also recommended I put the blue tinted powder in some hot water to possibly get rid of copper. I tried that and it helped a little, maybe, I melted some in my melt dish and it turned to silver but it still has a trace of copper. Also, there was a black substance on one side of the nugget. I think it was from the glassy borax.

I went out to my shed and pulled out about 6 foot of solid copper i/2" copper rod. That should do a lot better in the cementing process. I don't have a problem using another process for precipitation. However, Lazersteve said the copper was probably the best and safest way. Do you agree?

 

[Oz]

For clarification, the boil of your cement silver is to aid in removing copper nitrate, it will do nothing for “copper”.

Be careful of your 6' long half inch round copper rod. Most rod like that that homeowners have around are copper plated steel grounding rods.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

I

I went out to my shed and pulled out about 6 foot of solid copper i/2" copper rod. That should do a lot better in the cementing process. I don't have a problem using another process for precipitation. However, Lazersteve said the copper was probably the best and safest way. Do you agree?

I might suggest you go back and look at Lasesteves video again. When he made the clip he had problems make it cement and had to put a piece of plate copper in th mix with a larger surface area. I could be wrong but that 1/2" diam. rod might take a while longer since it has a small surface area.

 

[cmethowusa]

Thanks for the info. I will cut into the rod and ensure it is solid copper. You are right, it is an old grounding rod I pulled up when I moved my shed. I melted some more of the powder and the nugget looked pretty good. I tested it with my acid test kit and stone and it appears to be good.

I've learned a lot as I go but most of it has been from helkp from the forum. Lazersteve's videos are excellant. Thanks again.

 

[Sodbuster]

Old ground rod - take a magnet to it or just look at the pointed tip. The tip of um are usually exposed steel.
Ray

 

[1dizzy1]

Whether or not Shorrs' SPC is a family or trade secret they are required by law to provide an MSDS. I have searched their site a couple of times for an MSDS link but have found none. I used sub-zero in their AR recipe and wanted to know what it was, no MSDS. I didnt call them because I figured I would get the run around, and I am not purchasing from them again anyway. Point being- every chemical used in the US and actually abroad has an associated MSDS. One thing the MSDS will list is the makeup and all components in the mix, by % or weight. Even if they purchase the component from another manufacturer, repackage it for sale they have to have an MSDS. I use Bodine Stumpout to precipitate gold, before I even purchased it, I went to their website and read and printed out the MSDS. I know a number of individuals on this forum are hobby refiners and I will bet most of them don't look at an MSDS which can be a very bad thing. Anyway, if you hammer them they will provide an MSDS, if not call OSHA, if they are packaging it in a plant they have an MSDS somewhere.
Don

 

[goldsilverpro]

Excellent point. Shor's being skirting the rules. What would it take to force their hand?

 

[Palladium]

Manufacturer and distributor requirements for developing MSDS for hazardous products.
http://www.ilpi.com/msds/osha/I20070503.html

Criteria for trade secret status http://www.ilpi.com/msds/osha/I20011023.html
:arrow:
OSHA has a very specific and rigorous definition/discussion of "trade secret" which makes up Appendix D of 29 CFR 1910.1200. An important quote from this section is Matters of public knowledge or of general knowledge in an industry cannot be appropriated by one as his secret. Matters which are completely disclosed by the goods which one markets cannot be his secret. So if you have a product which is easily reverse engineered or is a generic equivalent of other products, it would be quite difficult to support such a claim. You can not claim a "trade secret" merely for your own convenience or to prevent others from knowing that your magic cleaner is really just isopropyl alcohol. See this OSHA interpretation letter titled "0/23/2001 - Criteria for trade secret status" for more information.

http://www.ilpi.com/msds/osha/index.html

 

[1dizzy1]

SPC- Sodium Percarbonate?

Going after Shorr is probably a waste of time. Word of mouth will do them in.
A couple of years ago I approached a chemical manufacturer to get a sample of a chemical they had that stripped metals from silicon. At the time they had an exclusive contract with an Asian Silicon reclaimer and they would not provide a sample or MSDS until I proved that I was not in the reclaim business but in the "recycle" business. Actually they did send me an MSDS, but all the pertinent info was redacted out of the document. Once I convinced them that I was not a reclaimer and signed an NDA I received samples of their product and a full MSDS. Not cheap stuff, $100 a gallon. But it would strip copper like nobodys business, but always went exothermic when it came to Al. So I quit using it. Anyway, my point, finally.. NDA's are common documents in industry to protect "secrets". You could probably agree with them to sign an NDA and get the MSDS.

PS-dont you just love CFR? Good info, but you have to be a little zany to dig into it.

 

[goldsilverpro]

SPC - Silver Precipitation Chemical?

 

[Juan Manuel Arcos Frank]

As far as I know SPC=Storm Precipitant Cristals...When Shor uses it for silver it is hydroquinone.
Manuel