What to do with circa 50's gold powder?

[Anonymous]

Hi all, this is about as newbie as a question can be, so let me apologize in advance if I'm offending anyone or the board itself.

The question is what to do with about one pound of gold powder that has been in the family since the 50's. Here's the background:

My grandfather was an inventor (several patents issued to him) in the area of paints and screen printing. He experimented with mixing compounds in paints in the 1950's. He passed away some time ago, but the family still has a one-pound jar labeled "Smooth gold extra fine #110" from the United States Bronze Powder Works. Here's a picture:

There is also a box labeled "gold" with what looks like the same powder in it...it weighs about 200 grams. Based on his comments from long ago, the family believes that the powder is gold.

We'd like to sell, but the question is how and where? We have connections into local paint companies (including Sherwin Williams) and, according them, such powder is no longer used in paints and really has no applicability in that industry. So, unless there's some kind of niche market out there, is our best bet to turn to a refiner? And herein lies the "newbiest" of my questions...should it be refined/processed from this current form, or does it have more value as powder?

A local company has quoted $150 for a test to determine if it's gold and, if so, what level of purity. Is this a good idea, or do some refineries (ARA and NTR Metals have received some good comments from board users) do tests as part of the refining process, thus making an independent test not really worth it?

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

-Brian Johnson

 

[EDI Refining]

you could use GoldSilverPro on the forum for an assay. 0.5-1g would be needed and its $25 bucks I believe.

If your in Canada, I could purchase with a speedy settlement

 

[leavemealone]

A local company has quoted $150 for a test to determine if it's gold

Do not under any circumstance pay that.You can pay less than $10 and check it yourself,either with a jewelry testing kit,or making auric chloride and precipitating(weighing both before and after).Most pawn shops and jewelry stores will test for free!
There is a new member on the forum that has been looking for gold powder,heres his info. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=11312
I do not know what quantity he is looking for but it is a start.
Johnny

 

[Anonymous]

P3M - thanks for the quick reply...while I'm close to Canada (Cleveland, Ohio), I'm in the US.

Johnny (leavemealone) - also thanks for the quick reply and the link to the new member.

Both - thanks for the feedback about testing...the $150 is starting to look unrealistically high...

 

[goldsilverpro]

Most all decorative "gold" paint is made from some alloy of copper, such as bronze. So, the chances are that it is not gold, especially since it was made by the United States Bronze Powder Works.

I can assay it for gold for $25. However, if it's proven to not be gold, there's no reason to assay it. If you want to send me samples of both materials (about 2 grams of each), I will first determine whether or not there is any gold in them. If I find that there is no gold present, there will be no charge for this.

Email me at [email protected] if you're interested and I will give you my mailing address and other details.

EDIT: I guess I should explain why I need 2 grams. One gram for the possible assay and one gram for determining whether or not it contains gold. If it does contain gold, I will return anything in excess of one gram that you send me.

If you can get a little nitric acid, you can easily test it yourself. Or, you might take a pinch and ask your local jeweler to test it with nitric. He'll probably do it for nothing, since you might be a future customer. If it's a yellow metal, it can only be copper or gold. If it's copper, it will dissolve in nitric, most probably completely, and produce a blue solution. If it's gold, the nitric won't dissolve it. You could also buy a bottle of 10K gold testing solution on Ebay or from a local company that sells jewelry supplies, for a few dollars. The 10K is usually just nitric and a little water. Don't use 14K or 18K, because they are weak aqua regia and they might dissolve the gold and give a false test.

I hate to rain on your parade but, the more I look into this company on the internet, the more convinced I am that they made no products containing gold. They essentially made bronzing powder. The term "gold" in the product names was mainly to indicate color, I think. After seeing the photo you posted, I seem to remember going through this once before, many years ago, with the exact same product. In that case, it contained no gold. It sure looked like it, though.

 

[Palladium]

Ebay with a disclamer "as is".

Hell i would pay the listing just to see this one go. :twisted:

 

[leavemealone]

I hate to rain on your parade but, the more I look into this company on the internet, the more convinced I am that they made no products containing gold. They essentially made bronzing powder. The term "gold" in the product names was mainly to indicate color,

I am sorry also but I found that the company made countless types of powders,aluminum,brass,bronze,tin,copper,nickle,silver....you get the idea,though they made no powders containing actual gold.
There is a word in front of "gold" on the canister,can you read it or give us a better pic of that word?Call it curiosity.
Johnny
Oh yeh,if you do in prove for a fact that it is not gold,I would still like to buy it if the price is right.

 

[jimdoc]

It says smooth gold, he says that above the picture.

 

[Palladium]

:?:

 

[Palladium]

Item specifics
Type: Boxes
Primary Material: Bronze
Age: 1900-1940


This is a vintage cardboard box of 12 - 1oz. packets of HELIUS Palegold Lining. I believe this gets mixed with a bronzing agent to cause a gold affect. 12 packets all previously unopened, I unfolded one of them once' as seen in the photos' to show the powder, folded it back up and it's in the box with the other 11. The photos' show printed text and instructions that apear on each packet. Each packet is simply folded paper with the powder captured inside. Each packet is pliable and there is no evidence of solid or cakey conditions, the powder is extreemly fine.The box shows some wear and fadeing and measures about 2"x 3 1/2"x 4 3/4" All the packets and the box are marked "Copyright1923:United States Bronze Powder Works, Inc." thanks for shopping, Ty

 

[leavemealone]

It says smooth gold, he says that above the picture.

Woooops....see I do make mistakes sometimes....lol.
And palladium....wow bud,supernice post.You get an A++ for that one.
(Raises hand in desperation)but I have a question,where did you find that?That is so awesome looking.
Johnny

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Item specifics
Type: Boxes
Primary Material: Bronze
Age: 1900-1940


This is a vintage cardboard box of 12 - 1oz. packets of HELIUS Palegold Lining. I believe this gets mixed with a bronzing agent to cause a gold affect. 12 packets all previously unopened, I unfolded one of them once' as seen in the photos' to show the powder, folded it back up and it's in the box with the other 11. The photos' show printed text and instructions that apear on each packet. Each packet is simply folded paper with the powder captured inside. Each packet is pliable and there is no evidence of solid or cakey conditions, the powder is extreemly fine.The box shows some wear and fadeing and measures about 2"x 3 1/2"x 4 3/4" All the packets and the box are marked "Copyright1923:United States Bronze Powder Works, Inc." thanks for shopping, Ty

I guess you haven't tested any of this have you?

 

[Palladium]

Nope. I pulled that off ebay.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Ahh ok. Thanks

 

[leavemealone]

Ebay?How much did you end up paying?
Pnbjohnson ,you said your grandfather had patents?Do you know what they were or if he made any of them?Are you familiar with processing gold,or was your grandfather?I am only curious as to why he would have saved that particular canister.It is a neat item,and thank you for showing it to us.
Johnny

 

[Anonymous]

Hi everybody, thanks to all for looking at the post and commenting...everyone's input has been (and continues to be) very helpful.

Johnny(leavemealone) - One of his patents is US Pat. No. 2,220,745 for a multicolor printing plate. I'm not sure how many he has, but I believe they were all related to screen printing in one form or another. If it's possible to have negative knowledge regarding processing gold, that's me! But seriously, I really don't know anything about the gold processing industry, and this board is a great place to start to try to figure out what to do with this stuff. I don't think my grandfather had any knowledge regarding processing gold...from what family lore states, he would always be mixing things in the basement, many of which would give him terrible welts and spots on his hands. Looking back on this from today's knowledge, I'm guessing that he obtained a lot of materials from many sources and then experimented by mixing them together. This would lead me to believe that he was not involved in the process of making the ingredients, but rather using the ingredients towards making something else.

I have no doubt that he knew whether the canister was gold/bronze/copper, or whatever, but that knowledge has not passed down to my mom's or my generation. I note that the box that you can see a bit of in the corner of the picture has the word "gold" written on it (in my grandfather's handwriting), so taking your comments and Chris' (goldsilverpro) research (thank you tons for the research on this company...I'll be emailing you in a bit I think) it would be reasonable to believe that the box contains the gold powder (about 200 grams) while the canister contains bronze. Too bad it's not the other way around!

Either way, thanks to the interest shown here and the knowledge I gleaned from this board, I'm pretty sure my Mom's going to want it tested, and I'll keep posting information here about it as I receive it...but don't let the comments stop if anyone has anything to say! This board has been, and continues to be, a tremendous thing for this matter for my family. And I'll keep my hopes us that the canister is gold rather than copper...

 

[goldsilverpro]

There's lots of metallic paint and metallic pigment powders offered on the internet. Many of these are called "gold" but that term represents the color and not the actual metal. Here's an example. It is obviously not real gold because 40 grams only costs $6.84:
http://www.metallicmart.com/product_p/bpp-300.htm

It's always fun to think you have a little gold mine. I've been bitten by this myself, but I was most often disappointed. To avoid this disappointment, I have learned to take the negative approach to things like this rather than the positive. If this were mine, I would assume that it contained no gold. If there was gold, it would be a bonus. Over the years, it seems that this family legend has grown to the point that, if there is no gold, there will be extreme disappointment. Also, even if you paid $150 for an assay, and it showed no gold, there would probably be some family members that wouldn't believe the results. In this case, I think there is enough evidence to assume the worst case. I will be shocked (but, pleased) if any of that stuff contains any gold.

 

[Irons]

It says smooth gold, he says that above the picture.

Woooops....see I do make mistakes sometimes....lol.
And palladium....wow bud,supernice post.You get an A++ for that one.
(Raises hand in desperation)but I have a question,where did you find that?That is so awesome looking.
Johnny

And there I was going to make you a deal on glass vials. :mrgreen:

 

[Anonymous]

Johnny(leavemealone) - Sorry I missed one of your questions above...the word in front of "gold" (I assume it's "gold", because all that's left is "old" as the "g" or whatever has been torn off) is "smooth". If indeed this is not gold, I would guess this would relate as to how it would result from a bronzing process...that is, the finish would be smooth and gold-colored. Of note, there are bronzing instructions on the back of the can much like the ones in the pictures above...I'll get another picture or two of the back if anyone wants...

 

[Harold_V]

If it was gold, you'd know by the weight. When you have similar volumes of a copper alloy, weight won't vary noticeably---but gold weighs about double the weight of copper alloys. It would be very obvious to you were it gold.

What Chris said. Do note expect gold. Should it be, it will be a pleasant surprise----much nicer than the disappointment of coming to terms with the idea that what you have has literally no value.

Harold