Why such small batches???

[gpoon]

Guys total newbie here and ready to lift some gold leaf of some ram fingers. I've read a lot of posts, tutorials, and seen a ton of videos but it seems everybody processes gold in small batches 100 fingers, a pound of fingers etc. Why is this? wouldn't it be more economical to smash it out in one go?
I want to get an AP stockpot going for my 3 kg of fingers is there a reason not to bang this out in on go?

And while i got your attention, I can't get nitric acid, so ima go the bleach method.
So in a nutshell:
- 3:1 Hydrochloric Acid(approx 30%): Hydrogen peroxide (3-5%) just covering the fingers leave for 2 days (agitate in between)
- Filter through coffee filter collect the gold and rinse with water and allow to dry. (If not keeping AP neutralise with baking soda and dispose of responsibly)
- In GLASS jar/ beaker/ anything GLASS, place gold leaf add enough Hydrocholric acid to cover gold leaf and a bit more. I have read that you should add water but i also read its not necessary cause bleach has a lot of water. Slowly add bleach a bit at a time until gold is dissolved (avoiding inhaling gases with a respirator or by staying the hell away from it).
- Filter through coffee filter and keep the liquid gold.
- Add as many grams of SMB as you expect gold, mix and leave overnight to drop.
- Filter and melt the brown goodness.
- Brag about having a gold nugget!

Would be great to get corrections or extra tips.
Many thanks.

 

[kurtak]

Guys total newbie here and ready to lift some gold leaf of some ram fingers. I've read a lot of posts, tutorials, and seen a ton of videos but it seems everybody processes gold in small batches 100 fingers, a pound of fingers etc. Why is this? wouldn't it be more economical to smash it out in one go?
I want to get an AP stockpot going for my 3 kg of fingers is there a reason not to bang this out in on go?

Per the underlined - there is no reason at all why you can't do it all in one go - it's a matter of how large "you" want to set up to operate :!:

There a plenty of members here that work on larger (some much larger) then the "chase a few grams" scale

Most of the "chase a few grams" people are doing it as a "hobby" & have some other source of income - AND - there is nothing wrong with being the "chase a few grams" hobby guy

Kurt

 

[anachronism]

Most of the "chase a few grams" people are doing it as a "hobby" & have some other source of income - AND - there is nothing wrong with being the "chase a few grams" hobby guy

Kurt

I fully agree with this. Just because you're doing lots of gold doesn't make you any better than those doing it as a hobby. It just makes you different.

 

[gpoon]

Thanks guys, I just thought maybe it was an issue with the chemicals not scaling so well or something. And I certainly wasn't having a go at anyone doing it small scale.

Good to know!

 

[4metals]

Truth of the matter is it takes more skill to make a high purity gold button than it does to get a large batch to high purity. So in a sense, it is great practice for when you get the bigger lots.

 

[Justincase]

even if you have a hole tunn of material to process you are going to want to start small.
There are a number of questions you will need to answer before you go forward.
Which of the available methods are going to be more effective for you with what you have in hand,what return can you expect?
Starting small means your mistakes will be small and the solution easy,make a mistake on a large lot will have you up to your neck in sludge for weeks and put value in a hole spectrum of places and compounds that are awkward to recover from..

 

[denim]

Make sure you dispose of your waste acids properly. See http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=10539 . Proper treatment of acids before disposal is of paramount importance! Please be safe, and protect the environment.

 

[rickbb]

Also forget about the respirator, it won't protect you. The cartridge type is for low level, limited and occasional exposure and they will be depleted quickly, (seconds), if you get exposed to a full on "cloud".

Too many people new to this think you can just put one on and stick your face down over the digestion vessel and will be OK, you won't. You could die, or damage your lungs so badly you will be disabled for life. The gasses aren't just nasty, they are toxic poison. You should treat them that way.

Not trying to scare you, (OK maybe a little), this can all be done very safely. But you have to do it with the knowledge that you could make a mistake and do some harm to yourself or someone else nearby.

Get yourself a proper fume hood, and a secure, separate place to do it in. Especially if you want to do more than "small batches". Seriously.

 

[gpoon]

Also forget about the respirator, it won't protect you. The cartridge type is for low level, limited and occasional exposure and they will be depleted quickly, (seconds), if you get exposed to a full on "cloud".

Get yourself a proper fume hood, and a secure, separate place to do it in. Especially if you want to do more than "small batches". Seriously.

I plan on doing this outside and plan on having not having enough exposure to any gasses to warrant a respirator, but was planning on using one just as a precautionary measure.

 

[upcyclist]

even if you have a hole tunn of material to process you are going to want to start small.
There are a number of questions you will need to answer before you go forward.
Which of the available methods are going to be more effective for you with what you have in hand,what return can you expect?
Starting small means your mistakes will be small and the solution easy,make a mistake on a large lot will have you up to your neck in sludge for weeks and put value in a hole spectrum of places and compounds that are awkward to recover from..

This. I was hoping someone would say it.

On an ongoing basis, plan to scale your operation to match your incoming feedstock rate and your time. For example, even if you don't get much e-scrap in at a time, if your free days are few and far between, you'll want to do larger batches.

But while you learn, stay small. The trick is to do a large enough batch (once you're done with familiarization experiments) that you can actually see your gold drop. 10 pins is too small.

 

[kernels]

Yep, upcyclist and justinhcase are spot on.

Many many threads start with someone doing it for the first time complaining that what they are seeing is not what happened in the youtube video. Fingers are probably the most reliable scrap to process - meaning that there is not that much that can go wrong as long as you stick to the basics.

Don't do the 1:3 peroxide to Hydrochloric thing, cover the fingers in HCl, add a air bubbler and give it a 'splash' of peroxide. The H2O2 is only a kickstarter.

 

[Tndavid]

I like my small scale operation. Keeps waste stream down. :wink: Not saying if I had a kilo of karat that I would not run it cause that definitely isn't the case. Lol. Besides, it's not the size of your boat, it's how you row it!!!

 

[Justincase]

Besides, it's not the size of your boat, it's how you row it!!!

Not according to some sources.?lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I91DJZKRxs

 

[Tndavid]

Besides, it's not the size of your boat, it's how you row it!!!

Not according to some sources.?lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I91DJZKRxs

Ouch Lol.

 

[Shark]

There is another reason some do small batch's. Some are just better off financially than others. For those with less money to play with they can start small and work their way up to bigger batch's or better materials. I am one of those who dislike spending money on my hobbies until I have a fair grasp of what is involved to maintain it. It can be a long road to get there when working in small lot's but it sure help's when you get to working on those where you have a fair sum of money involved.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

There is another reason some do small batch's. Some are just better off financially than others. For those with less money to play with they can start small and work their way up to bigger batch's or better materials. I am one of those who dislike spending money on my hobbies until I have a fair grasp of what is involved to maintain it. It can be a long road to get there when working in small lot's but it sure help's when you get to working on those where you have a fair sum of money involved.

Yes! Perfect explanation from another perspective!
I had to start off small. 30 dollars, a bottle of muriatic, peroxide, and some coffee pots from goodwill got me going.

Doing it small, and slowly, you can soon get to a point where the money you make can go into not only scrap, but proper labware as well. Then eventually, you get all your gear and it goes right back to scrap or chemicals. If you have been buying scrap at a decent price, then it wont take too terribly long to get to that point. By the time you get there, you will be proficient enough to feel comfortable working with several kinds of scrap.

Nothing wrong going slow and steady with small lots.

 

[gpoon]

I guess my definition of big batch is like 3kg of fingers but i wouldn't think the up front costs would differ too much from a setup made to do half a kg right? Speaking stictly about the AP process, the chemicals would be about the same coz you'd have to buy the minimum amount of Hydrogen peroxide and HCL a couple of cheap buckets and a couple of cheap pickle jars, coffee filers and a colander or sieve and thats that.

 

[anachronism]

I guess my definition of big batch is like 3kg of fingers but i wouldn't think the up front costs would differ too much from a setup made to do half a kg right? Speaking stictly about the AP process, the chemicals would be about the same coz you'd have to buy the minimum amount of Hydrogen peroxide and HCL a couple of cheap buckets and a couple of cheap pickle jars, coffee filers and a colander or sieve and thats that.

If you're going to set up to do 3Kg batches then you need to be buying lab glassware. 1l and 2l beakers at the very least. Buy once, cry once!

 

[gpoon]

If you're going to set up to do 3Kg batches then you need to be buying lab glassware. 1l and 2l beakers at the very least. Buy once, cry once!

I was just going to use big glass jars and a standard pyrex 1L measuring cup for measuring the chemicals.
Not that im trying to be cheap, its just, while i'm doing big batches, it will be fairly infrequently 2 maybe 3 times a year.
I can't justify buying glassware when i can use existing household items.

 

[anachronism]

If you're going to set up to do 3Kg batches then you need to be buying lab glassware. 1l and 2l beakers at the very least. Buy once, cry once!

I was just going to use big glass jars and a standard pyrex 1L measuring cup for measuring the chemicals.
Not that im trying to be cheap, its just, while i'm doing big batches, it will be fairly infrequently 2 maybe 3 times a year.
I can't justify buying glassware when i can use existing household items.

OK whilst I hear what you're saying please allow me to point out that the first time you break a household item and lose gold you'll wish you had bought the right stuff in the first place.

Saving money usually ends up costing you money as the vast majority of guys on here will corroborate.

Jon