Zinc drop the blacks?

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

solarsmith

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
207
Location
denver co
I have done a Zinc drop on concentrated ore that was leached in ar and fully denoxed. this was to eleminate every thing on the down side of zinc and then filter out every thing on the up side of zinc. pgms platinum , gold, lead, copper, and a few others. I now have the dark grey precipitant in hcl and there is a lot of fizing and sulfer smell. also there is a lot of black precipitant now showing in this hcl bath. is this the( BLACKS) PGMs I have been told about from other similar leaches?. ( leaching the lead cones from assay crucibals ?) IF so I should just filter the blacks out and aqua regia them normalaly? Bryan In Denver Colorado.
 
before concentration 1.2 oz au and .75 oz pt per lb . (from a very hot spot) Iv been told it has a lot of lead too. Bryan In Denver Colorado.
 
but not above hydrogen. the uper limit of hcl if i under stand it corectly after zinc drop then a hcl bath the only solids left should be from hydrogen up. bismuth , copper, ruthenium, osmeium,mercury, silver, palladium,iridium, platinum, gold, is all the should be left as a solid . again If I understand the electromotive series corectly hcl should not be able to dissolve any thing above hydrogen with out the addition of an oxidizer.
I am an amature with this stuf so If i got it wrong I hope you all will understand . thanks Bryan In Denver Colorado
 
Hydrogen and carbon are referenced in the reactivity series as to their oxidation or reduction properties, they are really not part of the reactivity series as metals, carbon for example in a melt will remove oxides from metals (if other conditions are right or it can overcome the oxidizing properties of the melt (other oxides in the flux mix, Metal oxides, oxidizing atmosphere...).

Most metals above hydrogen can be attacked by acids (note H+ (HNO3 Aacid or H++in H2SO4acid).
Some are so reactive they dissolve in steam or even water..

Bryan you said that backwards (I do the same thing my brain wants to say right but my mouth or my fingers type left).
HCl should not be able to dissolve any thing below hydrogen with out the addition of an oxidizer, (like gold).

Iron in its elemental state can be attacked by acids like HCl (here the reactivity series of metals works), but HCl will not attack all forms of iron, some oxides of iron will not dissolve (they are really not iron anymore but ions (cations) of iron (iron salts or iron atoms that have already lost electrons) and the acid cannot oxidize them (they are already oxidized or already have lost there electrons, so the acid cannot be reduced to a salt by these iron oxides (or form chloride salts in the case of HCl).
Note some oxides of iron can be dissolved, or oxidized to a higher oxidation state (some cannot).

Hopefully this makes sense it is hard to explain I am no chemist.

Ore with gold (unless it is placer gold or gold on quartz) most of the time with aqua regia is a waste of good acids, and very dangerous to boot, as many times the reaction can produce deadly gases from compounds, arsenic for example,
Also the amount of other metals or salts in the ore will use up all the acids before it will ever touch the gold or less reactive metals, in my mind it is similar with electronics if we put a lot of junk in all we get is junk out, If we separate most all of the junk or base metals and troublesome metals before our gold see's aqua regia we can have success, I we have a lot of copper and base metals some of the gold may dissolve and then cement back out of solution as the copper or other base metals (trash) replace it from solution.
 
True I normaly tell others that acid leaching ore is a fools erand!. it would need to be a remarkable ore first befor any atempt at acid leaching would be viable. even at 2 oz per lb of gold and platinum I still concentrate 1 lb down to 4 to 5 oz. After aqua regia I am left with only 1 oz of un desolved ore(looks to be all quartz non metalic glass looking stuff) so 3 oz has gone into solution and of that 1 to 2 oz i epect is trash. (mostly lead)
the procedure Im working on is/would be a 3 step ore cleaning to get it down to a mix of pgms copper and higher. ( See chart)

step 1 leach ore concentrates with aqua regia. hcl heat and small additions of nitric till done. denox
step 2 drop with zinc powder at ph of 2 to 3. filter and save grey precipitate for next step
step 3 leach with hcl save spent hcl for stock pot save the undisolved (blacks) for further pgm refining.
step 4 ? undecided start with ar leach or a dilute nitric leach ? and what pgm to drop first?

I am now at the end of step three with this batch. I hope all that is in the blacks is the copper to platinum zone on the chart. and yes i know there are many things that can effect the outcome . this experament is for a general clean up of gold /pgm ore. thanks Bryan in Denver Colorado

ELECTROCHEMICAL (1).gif
 
Note I am no expert just some hobby gold miner who has his ideas about this.

Electrochemical series and the Reactivity series are actually two different subjects, one deals with electrochemical cells (electrolysis) and the other, (reactivity series deals with metals in solution), but all and all the series may be very similar (I have not compared them metal for metal to see how much different by the metals place in each.

As far as this working it can be possible, depending on the ore, some metals and salts or compounds of metals will go into will go into solution, with either just HNO3, or just HCl, and some will go into solution with aqua regia, some will not, even the gold PGM and other metals.

With ore, we can have compounds of metals even gold salts (tellurides selenates...), refractory ores, PGM metals, or compounds of metals, or even mixtures (gold-silver compounds ...), the list goes on as does the complexity.

we cannot just count on the reactivity series of metals totally as we are not really dealing with metals here, some (very little may (or may not) be actual elemental metals in rock.

Roasting would be the first (essential) step to any possible chance of success, this step if done correctly, could help to convert many of the metal salts or compounds to oxides.
Some ore's (depending on recovery route you chose to try could benefit in another roast in salt NaCl, which could help to convert many of the oxides to chlorides of those metals, if say your first leach would be using HCl alone, to remove as many metals as possible to become chloride ions in solution with this pre leach.

Note again some will some won't be converted to chloride in both of these processes... but it could help to swing the chances in your favor.

Some metals can cement out others metal ions dissolved in the solution, so several leaches may be needed, to even get as much of the less noble as possible.

Even before using an oxidizer like nitric with your leaching processes.

Testing what goes into solution and testing what does not go into solution could be key.

Assays would be key, on the ore before any treatment, and even during the different leaching processes, (undissolved powders could be gently heated to drive off chlorides without volatilizing values before bringing the temperature up slowly to a red hot covered roast (without much air, then further into an oxidizing roast introducing air (or even an oxidizer itself into the roast) before doing a fire assay test.

We would need not only to test what we had to begin and test what goes into solution and what does not go into solution...

Think of this as a big mess of metals and salts of metals we cannot really predict from the reactivity series (although very helpful too for us here where or what values go into solution, or where they are we would have to follow then with testing.

also what would work for one ore may not work for another, we may have to do extensive experimentation of many different processes, or even combination of processes to get anything to work, and smelting with various different chemical mixtures of fluxes may also need to be tested or tried.

We may also even need to experiment with a combination of smelting and wet chemical processes to be able to find a decent method of extracting as much values as possible from the ore...

Again a good preliminary assay would be key to first, not only to get an idea of values but also other compounds that you have to deal with before even experimenting chemically (or pyrological determination of values or constitutes) (If those are really real words or terms) :lol:

Heck, we may even have to do preliminary tests to figure out how to even assay the ore or collect it with another metal like lead in the melt...

It is not that you cannot get it to work, it is just more about figuring out what method or combination of methods will or will not work.

Mines normally have chemist whose whole job is to experiment to discover a method or to improve methods for the particular ore they are dealing with. some ore it may just work without much trouble others may take extensive research and much trials and retrials to find something that will work.

Rocks as simple as they are are not always simple.
A preliminary assay of not just metals but all compounds would help you to even begin, then I would study how others had dealt with similar types of ores and found success would be where I would begin.

Again I am just a man who can barely see (the blind) leading the blind here, so take this post for what it is worth not much (even with that grain of salt).
 
solarsmith said:
step 2 drop with zinc powder at ph of 2 to 3. filter and save grey precipitate for next step
step 3 leach with hcl save spent hcl for stock pot save the undisolved (blacks) for further pgm refining.
step 4 ? undecided start with ar leach or a dilute nitric leach ? and what pgm to drop first?

I am now at the end of step three with this batch. I hope all that is in the blacks is the copper to platinum zone on the chart. and yes i know there are many things that can effect the outcome . this experament is for a general clean up of gold /pgm ore. thanks Bryan in Denver Colorado

ELECTROCHEMICAL (1).gif
Step 2. Why not cement on copper?
Where as only precious metals would be cemented out of solution?

Did you stannous test before cementing to be certain there are PM's dissolved?
 
yes I did cement on copper but thats another batch. the zinc did it over night. and my stock pot has a copper plate in it.
Stannous test are being done at every step. Bryan In Denver colorado
 
remains to be seen how good it will be. just tested the hcl/blacks leach and it was at a ph of 6
so I filtered out the spent hcl and am doing a second bath still getting heavy fizzing lots of blacks still surviving . will test again tomorow and see if the leach is compleat. this is a picture of the fizzing driving the blacks to the top.
this 000hclblacks.jpg
 
You should really use a pyroceram dish, or some sort of buffer between the flask and hotplate. You will end up having a bad time if not.

Do you have pictures of the stannous tests?

What does the copper thats cementing look like?
Picture of it too, please?
 
im not heating it yet. gets hot on its own. after reactions stop on additions of hcl I will dry and weigh.
and you ar right i need a buffer for the heat. and a ceramic stirer. I read somplace that at this point I should be stiring during the leach. heat is not on due to hydrogen gas that is probly being made by the combination of zinc and hcl . (well vented area)
 
ph now at 1,, blacks now on botom of flask and no fizzing reaction on addition of fresh hcl. reaction may be done!. will let soak cold over night and test after 24 hrs . this is what I was hoping for, unless the hcl has moved on to a less reactive metal. Hcl is clear with a hint of charcoal dust. Bryan in Denver Colorado :shock:
 
Its now been 24 hrs leached at temp of 70 f the ph after 24 hrs was still 1 . 2/3 of the black precipitate is still there. I have filtered 3 times and this is a picture of the filtrate . I will let it dry and then weigh it . the picture was done just seconds after the hcl filtered through it. it instantly cracked as you can see. thank Bryan In Denver Colorado.000blacks.jpg
 

Latest posts

Back
Top