How does voltage affect a Silver Cell?

[bes8718]

I'm not sure what voltage to run my silver cell at or how the voltage actually affects the cell.

The cell is set up in a 1 ltr beaker with 95g per litre of silver

The anode basket has muslin cloth as a filter

The cathode is a 45mm×12mm graphite block

I am feeding roughly 98-99% pure silver through it

Any information would be greatly appreciated

 

[4metals]

Generally the power you use to run a Silver cell is a function of the current density of the anode (usually as amps per sq ft of anode) this can be difficult to get exact because the anode area decreases as the Silver dissolves and is deposited at the cathode. But generally the figure ranges between 40 and 60 amps per square foot.

But rectifiers will tell you amperage and voltage and as a result you should do the math to get a current density you prefer to run at in terms of amps and set the voltage as required to maintain that number. It can vary cell to cell with different parameters like anode to cathode distance, anode size to cathode size (ratio) or concentration of Silver in the electrolyte, thum or moebius, and even pH.

To set up an experimental cell, do the math for your anode area and set the desired ASF that gives you an acceptable Silver growth rate. From there you can tweak it up or down and that tweaking always involves the voltage.

For larger cells, the amperages range from 150-300 amps per cell while the voltages vary from 2.5V to 4V.

 

[Alondro]

Generally the power you use to run a Silver cell is a function of the current density of the anode (usually as amps per sq ft of anode) this can be difficult to get exact because the anode area decreases as the Silver dissolves and is deposited at the cathode. But generally the figure ranges between 40 and 60 amps per square foot.

But rectifiers will tell you amperage and voltage and as a result you should do the math to get a current density you prefer to run at in terms of amps and set the voltage as required to maintain that number. It can vary cell to cell with different parameters like anode to cathode distance, anode size to cathode size (ratio) or concentration of Silver in the electrolyte, thum or moebius, and even pH.

To set up an experimental cell, do the math for your anode area and set the desired ASF that gives you an acceptable Silver growth rate. From there you can tweak it up or down and that tweaking always involves the voltage.

For larger cells, the amperages range from 150-300 amps per cell while the voltages vary from 2.5V to 4V.

150 amps? That's a lot of current! Our washing machine is only hooked up to a 30 amp circuit, for example! Did you mean milliamps (mA) as opposed to full amps (A)?

 

[4metals]

Rectifiers are 12v DC. The range of the bath specifics Iisted are from Butts and Coxe on silver. A definitive compendium of silver and everything about Silver.

 

[goldshark]

150 amps? That's a lot of current! Our washing machine is only hooked up to a 30 amp circuit, for example! Did you mean milliamps (mA) as opposed to full amps (A)?

He did say the LARGER cells run at that Amperage. I'm not sure how large , large means, but some of the cells at mines or refineries are really large. I have seen some running 3' x 3' cathodes. At the minimum of 40 amps per square foot, the would be 360 amps. Multiply that by 30 - 50 cells running at once. Thank god it runs on low DC voltage.

 

[Bob Craftsman]

there is a utube channel called 'sreetips' (or something lclose to that), he weekly posts on silver/gold refining , volts and amps he uses to prevent toomuch heator too rapid of a chemical reaction in his silver refining ..

 

[Yggdrasil]

there is a utube channel called 'sreetips' (or something lclose to that), he weekly posts on silver/gold refining , volts and amps he uses to prevent toomuch heator too rapid of a chemical reaction in his silver refining ..

He is a member here and one out of few that is worth following on Youtube

 

[Bob Craftsman]

I figured he would be ... yes, youtube is a vast sea of material to sift through ...

 

[Yggdrasil]

I figured he would be ... yes, youtube is a vast sea of material to sift through ...

And most are shark infested, we usually do not recommend Youtube as a learning ground.
The exceptions are Sreetips, Aquila, Owltech and a few others.
But most are made for click baits and a sure way to loss, injury or worse.

 

[BGDOCK]

I'm not sure what voltage to run my silver cell at or how the voltage actually affects the cell.

The cell is set up in a 1 ltr beaker with 95g per litre of silver

The anode basket has muslin cloth as a filter

The cathode is a 45mm×12mm graphite block

I am feeding roughly 98-99% pure silver through it

Any information would be greatly appreciated

Try starting off
under 3 VDC (2.5-2.3 worked well for me)
The amps will fluctuate with things like anode bag slime build up, concentration and depletion of the electrolyte, etc.
I like running a smaller cells.

Things I learned the hard way
1.) Wear gloves even when cleaning glassware ( the stain last for week)
2.) try not to mess with the anode bag if disturbed slime particles will trickle down.
3.) set up the cell and let it run don’t mess with it every couple of hours.
4.) the cathode wire from the graphite block might need silicon caulk covering it. I had some of the clear insulation covering the wire break down.
5.) put a catch pan underneath the cell.

These are just my observations I’m sure there are more . There are people on this forum that have been doing this longer and on a professional level.

Good luck send pictures

Jeff

 

[Alondro]

He did say the LARGER cells run at that Amperage. I'm not sure how large , large means, but some of the cells at mines or refineries are really large. I have seen some running 3' x 3' cathodes. At the minimum of 40 amps per square foot, the would be 360 amps. Multiply that by 30 - 50 cells running at once. Thank god it runs on low DC voltage.

Ah, I thought he was referring to us garage refiners. There's no way to squeeze that much current out of something household without setting something on fire as a result. XD

 

[bes8718]

Generally the power you use to run a Silver cell is a function of the current density of the anode (usually as amps per sq ft of anode) this can be difficult to get exact because the anode area decreases as the Silver dissolves and is deposited at the cathode. But generally the figure ranges between 40 and 60 amps per square foot.

But rectifiers will tell you amperage and voltage and as a result you should do the math to get a current density you prefer to run at in terms of amps and set the voltage as required to maintain that number. It can vary cell to cell with different parameters like anode to cathode distance, anode size to cathode size (ratio) or concentration of Silver in the electrolyte, thum or moebius, and even pH.

To set up an experimental cell, do the math for your anode area and set the desired ASF that gives you an acceptable Silver growth rate. From there you can tweak it up or down and that tweaking always involves the voltage.

For larger cells, the amperages range from 150-300 amps per cell while the voltages vary from 2.5V to 4V.

Interesting, thanks for the detailed response!

 

[bes8718]

Try starting off
under 3 VDC (2.5-2.3 worked well for me)
The amps will fluctuate with things like anode bag slime build up, concentration and depletion of the electrolyte, etc.
I like running a smaller cells.

Things I learned the hard way
1.) Wear gloves even when cleaning glassware ( the stain last for week)
2.) try not to mess with the anode bag if disturbed slime particles will trickle down.
3.) set up the cell and let it run don’t mess with it every couple of hours.
4.) the cathode wire from the graphite block might need silicon caulk covering it. I had some of the clear insulation covering the wire break down.
5.) put a catch pan underneath the cell.

These are just my observations I’m sure there are more . There are people on this forum that have been doing this longer and on a professional level.

Good luck send pictures

Jeff

Yep figured out the stain part myself haha. And I'll do the things you've suggested. Thanks

 

[4metals]

It is not over the top for a garage refiner to have a small cell with an anode about 6" square or 1/4 sq ft. So even 40 ASF puts you in the same range as the monster sized cells even if you are only drawing 10 amps.

 

[kurtak]

150 amps? That's a lot of current! Our washing machine is only hooked up to a 30 amp circuit, for example! Did you mean milliamps (mA) as opposed to full amps (A)?

LOW voltage DC current (amps) & HIGH voltage AC current (amps) are two different things


Don't have time to explain right now


Kurt

 

[Yggdrasil]

150 amps? That's a lot of current! Our washing machine is only hooked up to a 30 amp circuit, for example! Did you mean milliamps (mA) as opposed to full amps (A)?

Think about it, 1 Volt times 300Amps is just 300 Watts.
It is not very much.

 

[Spaceships]

Think about it, 1 Volt times 300Amps is just 300 Watts.
It is not very much.

Agreed- but a 300A rectifier isn't cheap!

 

[Yggdrasil]

Agreed- but a 300A rectifier isn't cheap!

You are right, but it is still only 300W

 

[kurtak]

150 amps? That's a lot of current! Our washing machine is only hooked up to a 30 amp circuit, for example! Did you mean milliamps (mA) as opposed to full amps (A)?

To which I replied

LOW voltage DC current (amps) & HIGH voltage AC current (amps) are two different things

To better explain

It can (or not) take less then 1 amp of HIGH voltage AC to kill you - at the very least "a few" amp of HIGH voltage AC will shock the living daylights out of you

Example; - touch the bare copper end of 120 volt 15 amp AC wire (what your household outlets are wired with) & it will shock the living daylights out of you

On the other hand with LOW voltage DC you can touch the bare copper (of the positive side of the circuit) with A LOT of amps & you will not even feel it

Example; - I worked (as a contractor) wiring up the DC rectifiers for a very large aluminum anodizing plant

The rectifiers that provided the DC power to the very large anodizing tanks (which are basically the same as a silver or copper cell) had an output of 25 DC volts with the potential of delivering as much as 20,000 amps

The bare copper bus bars that ran from the rectifier to the anodizing tanks where about 8 - 10 inches wide & about 3 - 4 inches thick

You could reach up & grab ahold of those bare copper bus bars & feel absolutely nothing even though there was a huge amount of amps running through them

Kurt

 

[Yggdrasil]

Approximately 100 milli amps through your heart will kill you.
But in order to flow the amps need to overcome the resistance in the object they are flowing through.
This is where the Voltage comes in, it creates a potential(force/tension) what ever you like to call it.
If the Voltage/potential is too low it will not flow.
This is why High Voltage systems need thicker/better insulation.
For Low Voltage systems to create the same amount of Work (Watt) it needs much higher Amps which equals much thicker cables.
Just think of a car battery, you can touch the poles, but if the spanner hits the chassis it will be glowing red in seconds.