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How much will you be melting and for what period of time?
If i remember from what i read at 100% duty cycle that thing will generate about 300,000 btu's of heat that will need to be dissipated to stay below the operating parameters. It does say that it has a built in shut down to stop over heating from what i read.
 
modtheworld44 said:
FrugalRefiner said:
Looking at the last picture in the eBay listing, the two power lugs look like they are stamped 40A. 8 gauge wire would carry that with a 40 amp breaker. Mod, do you have anything other than the utube video you mentioned that says it needs a 70 amp circuit? Maybe he's being over conservative?

Dave

FrugalRefiner

I was just on the phone with shark asking him if that stamp meant 40A,then clicked in to see what you and palladium have posted.Thank you for the double confirmation.I should have this baby up and running in the next couple of hours,going to home depot.Thank yall for all the help.It really means alot guy's.



modtheworld44
Don't do anything based on what I said! I was mainly making an observation about the picture. I'm not an electrician. Do not rely on my speculation.

Dave
 
Those really produce more like 8 kW power, if even.
I have used just that same unit. You can melt up to a kilo of Pt if the heavens and all align and a winning powerball ticket is in your immediate future.

In reality, expect to be winding a different coil for different jobs.

As for cooling...unless you use it all day, use a 55 gallon drum of tap water and a jet pump from a home hardware store. Worked for me.
 
Lou said:
Those really produce more like 8 kW power, if even.
I have used just that same unit. You can melt up to a kilo of Pt if the heavens and all align and a winning powerball ticket is in your immediate future.

In reality, expect to be winding a different coil for different jobs.

As for cooling...unless you use it all day, use a 55 gallon drum of tap water and a jet pump from a home hardware store. Worked for me.

Lou

Will a regular 110v 15-20a dedicated breaker work for this machine? or Do I need the 8-2 gauge wire run from 110v 30-40a breaker? Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44
 
I don't know how much more clear I can say it. If you wire this up without understanding whether it's prepared for 110 volt or 220 volt, you run the risk of at minimum damaging the machine. I've spent my fair share of time working on Chinese import project machines over the last fifteen years. You should not expect anything to be logical or make sense. I've done a reasonable amount of research on these, and the quality is reported to be all over the map, with very little consistency between distributors.

Personally, I would not put 240 volts to this if it was labeled as a 110v machine, without disconnecting everything and measuring voltage out from the transformer, and ensuring that it is correct to match up to the component it plugs in to.

The one that Lou has was purchased for around $5000 by a mutual friend, about five years ago. The price has come down considerably, but that same machine still costs around $3500 from the same distributor. It may have (and likely has) considerably better parts than the one sold for $900 on Ebay. Further, the quality of these machines varies wildly between those sourced by american distributors that offer post purchase support (such as the case in Lou's), and those that are just sold by drop shipping distributors on American soil (which seems to be the case in yours)

You need to learn about your specific machine, and what it has inside of it, not what similar machines have, as they may not be the same. You will, at some point be doing repairs on it. This is a promise.

For what it's worth, a 40 amp breaker on 240 volts is providing 9.6 kW maximum input, and after losses, as Lou explains, you'll get a max around 7-8 kW at the coil. A 20 amp breaker on 110 volt provides a maximum of 2.2 kW input, output would be pretty low. So no, a 20 A breaker on 110 volt will not suffice.
 
snoman701 said:
I don't know how much more clear I can say it. If you wire this up without understanding whether it's prepared for 110 volt or 220 volt, you run the risk of at minimum damaging the machine. I've spent my fair share of time working on Chinese import project machines over the last fifteen years. You should not expect anything to be logical or make sense. I've done a reasonable amount of research on these, and the quality is reported to be all over the map, with very little consistency between distributors.

Personally, I would not put 240 volts to this if it was labeled as a 110v machine, without disconnecting everything and measuring voltage out from the transformer, and ensuring that it is correct to match up to the component it plugs in to.

The one that Lou has was purchased for around $5000 by a mutual friend, about five years ago. The price has come down considerably, but that same machine still costs around $3500 from the same distributor. It may have (and likely has) considerably better parts than the one sold for $900 on Ebay. Further, the quality of these machines varies wildly between those sourced by american distributors that offer post purchase support (such as the case in Lou's), and those that are just sold by drop shipping distributors on American soil (which seems to be the case in yours)

You need to learn about your specific machine, and what it has inside of it, not what similar machines have, as they may not be the same. You will, at some point be doing repairs on it. This is a promise.

For what it's worth, a 40 amp breaker on 240 volts is providing 9.6 kW maximum input, and after losses, as Lou explains, you'll get a max around 7-8 kW at the coil. A 20 amp breaker on 110 volt provides a maximum of 2.2 kW input, output would be pretty low. So no, a 20 A breaker on 110 volt will not suffice.


snoman701

It is not a 220v unit,I just need to know how to hook the wires to the machine and what orientation the ground ,hot and neutral wires are connected to which lug posts.I'm going with 8-2 wire 125v outlet and plug from machine,breaker is single post 20a.Wire is white,black and bare copper.I really need to have this hooked up and running in the next 3 hours.Here some pictures.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44
 

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The pics in the eBay ad show a 2 pole breaker built in to the machine. That's a pretty good indication that it will run on 220v.

Ohm's Law says watts÷volts=amps.
15000w÷220v=68.2 amps.

If that's wrong and it is indeed a 120v unit, the math comes to 125 amps. That's more than the load rating of the main panel in most houses, on one circuit.

I would take Lou's words as gold and figure around half the stated kW. Then wire in the feed based on that. Something that many who do electric work don't realize is that a circuit breaker's job isn't to protect the device from over current, it is there to protect the conductors that run from the breaker to the device.

Nevermind most of that, Jerry. Can you post some brighter pics real quick?
 
modtheworld44 said:
snoman701 said:
I don't know how much more clear I can say it. If you wire this up without understanding whether it's prepared for 110 volt or 220 volt, you run the risk of at minimum damaging the machine. I've spent my fair share of time working on Chinese import project machines over the last fifteen years. You should not expect anything to be logical or make sense. I've done a reasonable amount of research on these, and the quality is reported to be all over the map, with very little consistency between distributors.

Personally, I would not put 240 volts to this if it was labeled as a 110v machine, without disconnecting everything and measuring voltage out from the transformer, and ensuring that it is correct to match up to the component it plugs in to.

The one that Lou has was purchased for around $5000 by a mutual friend, about five years ago. The price has come down considerably, but that same machine still costs around $3500 from the same distributor. It may have (and likely has) considerably better parts than the one sold for $900 on Ebay. Further, the quality of these machines varies wildly between those sourced by american distributors that offer post purchase support (such as the case in Lou's), and those that are just sold by drop shipping distributors on American soil (which seems to be the case in yours)

You need to learn about your specific machine, and what it has inside of it, not what similar machines have, as they may not be the same. You will, at some point be doing repairs on it. This is a promise.

For what it's worth, a 40 amp breaker on 240 volts is providing 9.6 kW maximum input, and after losses, as Lou explains, you'll get a max around 7-8 kW at the coil. A 20 amp breaker on 110 volt provides a maximum of 2.2 kW input, output would be pretty low. So no, a 20 A breaker on 110 volt will not suffice.


snoman701

It is not a 220v unit,I just need to know how to hook the wires to the machine and what orientation the ground ,hot and neutral wires are connected to which lug posts.I'm going with 8-2 wire 125v outlet and plug from machine,breaker is single post 20a.Wire is white,black and bare copper.I really need to have this hooked up and running in the next 3 hours.Here some pictures.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44
Good...hook it up and get it goin.

8 gauge wire will keep you from setting your house on fire as long as the 20a breaker trips.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Not sure this will help, but from what I can make out, these are all designed around the electrical systems used in other countries, not the U.S. standard. If I understood the videos Jerry linked to, then the double breaker is actually two separate 110's. One operates the front panel and controls while the other actually operates the unit itself. Even then I am not sure it makes much difference. By converting them to 220v, you have the problem that the front panel is still 110v powered, hence the diagram for cutting one of the wires inside.

Anyhow, I think Jerry is now on the right path somewhat of wiring it straight to 110v. My thought would be to connect straight to the main power below the meter, and use a 75-100 amp breaker type throw switch box dedicated to the furnace. In that case I would use a 4 gauge wire, especially if the distance was much over 10-15 feet from breaker to machine. As he is going to try it with 8 gauge wire and a 20amp breaker, I think it will throw the breaker pretty often. But I am no electrician and anything I work on with electricity ends up "biting" me more often than not. Luckily, most of my electrical work has been on low voltage/low amp systems.

Yep, better pictures. The lighting in that dungeon leaves much to be desired, :lol:

I really want to see if this thing will work.
 
Shark said:
then the double breaker is actually two separate 110's.

Yes, the two separate 110v legs of that breaker are what phase together for the 220v circuit. The machine is just using each 110v leg for separate functions instead of using one leg and a neutral for both.

Shark said:
By converting them to 220v, you have the problem that the front panel is still 110v powered, hence the diagram for cutting one of the wires inside.

I didn't see that diagram, but it sounds more like cutting that wire would be converting it from 220v to 110v. Leaving it at 220v would be much more efficient.

On a 20 amp breaker he can just use #12 wire. The breaker will trip before it's able to heat up the wire.
 
UncleBenBen said:
Shark said:
then the double breaker is actually two separate 110's.

Yes, the two separate 110v legs of that breaker are what phase together for the 220v circuit. The machine is just using each 110v leg for separate functions instead of using one leg and a neutral for both.

Shark said:
By converting them to 220v, you have the problem that the front panel is still 110v powered, hence the diagram for cutting one of the wires inside.

I didn't see that diagram, but it sounds more like cutting that wire would be converting it from 220v to 110v. Leaving it at 220v would be much more efficient.

On a 20 amp breaker he can just use #12 wire. The breaker will trip before it's able to heat up the wire.

UncleBenBen


Thank you for coming to my rescue sir,here is the pictures you need.I await your instruction.Thank you so very much in advance.



modtheworld44
 

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Just talked with Mod. I helped him get set up on a 40 amp 110v feed. He will will have it up and running soon.
Hopefully that will give him all the juice he needs. Going higher would have cost quite a bit more on the front end.

If all else fails, the wife and I usually head out in his direction for our anniversary in March and I'll see if I can swing by and rewire his machine for 220v.

That should at least make my Mrs. happy! :D
 
UncleBenBen

I just spoke with Jerry and he explained your idea. I like it, but I didn't know you could do it that way. Hopefully tomorrow evening there will be some good news from him.
 
Thank you!!!!

UncleBenBen

Bring what ever you want melted when you come to chattanooga,it's on the house for the life of the machine.You have made a new friend today sir.



I want to Thank everyone else who contributed to this thread as well.Thanks for making that call to UncleBenBen and getting him to read the forum.(I owe you one T).



modtheworld44
 
Glad to see everything is working out.

Shark said:
My thought would be to connect straight to the main power below the meter, and use a 75-100 amp breaker type throw switch box dedicated to the furnace. In that case I would use a 4 gauge wire, especially if the distance was much over 10-15 feet from breaker to machine.

I just want to comment on this for the forum archives.

This is NOT something I would recommend to anyone who wouldn't think of doing it themselves. Once you start working upstream of the distribution panel, you do so without the protection the breaker provides. You really need to have a solid understanding of what you are doing, and have safe working practices. Obviously you'd pull the meter, but even then, on this circuit your next line of defense is the cutout fuse on the power company pole mounted transformer, and blowing that one takes a lot of power. It's unlikely that it would happen without serious injury.

This is also where a lot of fires commonly start, as up until the wires come out of the weatherhead they are your responsibility. People assume that anything upstream of the meter is the power companies, and so often don't check those conductors. On a lot of old homes, the mast wires are only four to six gauge copper, as 60 amp service panels were pretty common for some time. Homeowners replace the wire to the meter box to upgrade to their new fancy 200 amp service, but they never replace the mast wires. The overheads don't have to be replaced, as ampacity of open air conductors are completely different.
 
modtheworld44 said:
Thank you!!!!

UncleBenBen

Bring what ever you want melted when you come to chattanooga,it's on the house for the life of the machine.You have made a new friend today sir.



I want to Thank everyone else who contributed to this thread as well.Thanks for making that call to UncleBenBen and getting him to read the forum.(I owe you one T).



modtheworld44

Did you get this goin yet?
 
snoman701 said:
modtheworld44 said:
Thank you!!!!

UncleBenBen

Bring what ever you want melted when you come to chattanooga,it's on the house for the life of the machine.You have made a new friend today sir.



I want to Thank everyone else who contributed to this thread as well.Thanks for making that call to UncleBenBen and getting him to read the forum.(I owe you one T).



modtheworld44


snoman701

Check back here later at about 9pmest.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

Did you get this goin yet?
 
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