Info on sulphuric deplating/stripping cell

[darinventions]

Thanks Bjorn...about the static related discharge..i don't think it will be much of an issue ..i live in Missouri an its very humid here most the time..but i know there's other parts of the world where this would be a issue...so how do you propose you would address a static issue?

 

[solar_plasma]

That would be more a question for Göran or Richard to answer as they know much more about electricity than me. But based on the methods, education and equipment in the hazmat team I can say everything that is a good conductor AND is grounded so everything has the same potential is considered to be safe - well some kind of minimum safety. Plastics have to be anti-static. Electrical equipment has to be marked as being explosion prevented. Now, this is for areas where the LEL might be exeeded for shorter time (like a hazmat operation). Further we measure the concentration of flammable gases all the time using an "ex-warn" that will give an alarm as soon as the LEL is reached based on a toluol standard just to be safe in any case. Areas, where the LEL is exceeded ALL the time are something else!

I think the better and safer way is definitively to prevent to reach the LEL of 4% by blowing lots of air INTO the box and lead it directly to the outside. It has to be secured, that this ventilating is provided at any time, it might make sense to have a redundant system with more than one fan or a security circuit that will cut the cell circuit in case of malfunction.

Much easier just to use it under an open fume hood in a well ventilated area :lol: or not to close the box you have build while operating. And to observe the process, to control temperature all the time and not leaving it unattended.

 

[darinventions]

Ohh...now i see why the concern over hydrogen gas build up...to clear things up i never completely close the lid while in use(its a two piece lid)the lid is really jusr to keep dust and bugs out while its not in use...i also always siphon out the acid when I'm done using it regardless of how much values it may contain..i figure if its sealed in a jar it can't draw moisture from the air or get anything else in it...i try my best to make everything safe ...an just about everything involved in recover an refining_can either hurt you or kill you if you don't keep safety in mind ...with that being said for any new guy's that read this please do your research before just diving in blindly ..there's NO AMOUNT OF GOLD WORTH YOUR LIFE!

 

[butcher]

I would recommend using GFCI outlets in your lab.

 

[darinventions]

Got'em just haven't put them on that side of the room yet...other side of the room is all GFCI receptacles...i also use plug in timers..they'll handle a single burner hot plate with no problem most of the timers I've found are rated for. 1500+ watts.. make sure you check for max amps or watts before buying..if its not rated for at least 15Amps or above 1400Watts don't get it ..

 

[darinventions]

I probably should have waited an ran some more plated material before recovering the gold from the sulfuric solution but anyway here's my first bar from this cell..weighs 16 grams ..

 

[colt45gto]

nice setup great result. how much of what did you strip for that beauty?

 

[darinventions]

In the last picture you'll see a French Onion Dip can on top of a Coffee can..dip can was full of magnetic an nonmagnetic jewelry(none containing silver ) but all was gold tone ,plated,clad,1/10th,filledor in some way had gold on it...the coffee can was full of gold plated spoons ,forks ,knives ,a zippo,a few tea or coffee stir sticks,&a 24k plated air plane i bought at flee market for $1.00(it was 5"long ,6"wide,3.5"tall)had to cut it up..it took me about 1.5hours to run it all through the cell... then i dissolved it in hcl+bleach&precipitated with SMB..then melted it. if you want to know how much i couldn't tell ya i forgot to weigh it or take any pictures ...SORRY guys..

 

[Rachello]

Hey guys!

I just wanted to add that I think this is a great thread!! Although I haven’t checked the math I really think this tidbit is very informative. I have read so many questions from people asking this exact same thing. It’s good to see the facts behind the answers!

U=I•R

P=U•I

1 Watt over a time of 1 second ist equal to 1 Joule

1 Joule will heat 1g gramm of water 0,239 Kelvin

the heat capacity of water is 4,186 kJ/(kg K)

the heat capacity of H2SO4 is 1,386 kJ/(kg K)

So it will take about 3 times as much energy to warm up H2O compared to H2SO4 (for H2SO4 ~0,72 Kelvin per gramm per Joule)

If we use the cell (1 kg H2SO4) at let us say 40 Watts, it will get 0,0288 K warmer every second, 1,728 K every minute, 51,84 K in a half hour.

this is without calculating the loss of warmth, just as if we would use a thermal isolated container

Quite seldom I have to calculate anything else but water and I wasn't sure, if I could find out, but when I do the plausibility check and compare this result to what I have experienced, it seems to be just fine.


One advice: everyone who wants to basically understand his cell, should have a look on Ohm's law! Just as Geo already said: The Ampere is always given by the setting of voltage and resistance. The resistance is given by the electrode areal, distance and composition of electrolyte.

But in reality the whole thread & it’s posts are really informative & straight to the point

Rachel

 

[nickvc]

Rachel it’s almost impossible to post false information here on the forum as we have far too many clever chemists and refiners that can spot it in an instant, thank you all, and most threads get fully dissected by one expert or several if it doesn’t sound right, we try to keep fantasy and dreaming off the forum for the safety of all.
As for the sulphuric cell in my opinion one of the most dangerous pieces of kit we use, I hate sulphuric as much as I do hydrofluoric, I’d rather use cyanide but for those that cannot source it the cell offers a workable alternative but please always work with your own safety in mind.

 

[anachronism]

Yeah- if Solar Plasma posted that it will have been triple checked before he even hit the submit button. Bjorn's like that 8) 8)

 

[bengie84]

I what to do a cell for all my pins and plated scrap however all I see is sulphuric acid being used here in England that’s a BIG no no and is a criminal offence to even try to buy it let alone be in possession of it.

So how or what else could be used in its place I played around with salted water but far to slow and have kilos of pins to get through

Any thoughts or info would be greatly appreciated

 

[kernels]

There are some things in life that are just not meant to be. Looking around for ways to do recovery and refining with stuff you can find in the pantry is pretty much a waste of time.

It is technically possible to evaporate battery acid down to get concentrated Sulfuric.

 

[rickbb]

I what to do a cell for all my pins and plated scrap however all I see is sulphuric acid being used here in England that’s a BIG no no and is a criminal offence to even try to buy it let alone be in possession of it.

So how or what else could be used in its place I played around with salted water but far to slow and have kilos of pins to get through

Any thoughts or info would be greatly appreciated

So everyone in England that owns a car is hauling around a half liter of banned substance called a battery?

 

[bengie84]

Pretty much yeah we can’t even buy diluted to top batteries up all because some women had it thrown in her face but now big celeb so her plan worked but screwed the rest of us responsible Englishmen

 

[anachronism]

Pretty much yeah we can’t even buy diluted to top batteries up all because some women had it thrown in her face but now big celeb so her plan worked but screwed the rest of us responsible Englishmen

Chucking the baby out with the bathwater by enshrining knee jerk reactionary laws has been a trademark of recent UK governments.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

While I'm more in tune with comments regarding U.S. politics, we should probably avoid posts about the politics of other countries as well. I'm sure there are those on both sides, and we don't want to discuss issues that might divide our members.

Dave

 

[kernels]

Pretty much yeah we can’t even buy diluted to top batteries up all because some women had it thrown in her face but now big celeb so her plan worked but screwed the rest of us responsible Englishmen

You don't have to buy diluted Sulfuric for topping up batteries, just buy a few oldish batteries and empty them out. Obviously look for ones that have the little access holes on top where you can just unscrew a plug and drain them.

Obviously you still then have to concentrate it down, which I would't say is trivial, but certainly achievable if you have no other choice.

The empty batteries can then obviously be filled up with water and sold on to the scrap metal guys (who buy them for the Lead anyway)

 

[anachronism]

While I'm more in tune with comments regarding U.S. politics, we should probably avoid posts about the politics of other countries as well. I'm sure there are those on both sides, and we don't want to discuss issues that might divide our members.

Dave

Thanks for the input Dave noted and understood. That given, it's a general observation rather than a partisan one. Benji and I would probably agree on it even if we were diametrically opposed in political beliefs. There's a very big movement of "they're all as bad as one another" here. 8) 8)

Onto refining.

 

[bengie84]

I agree also and not many ppl like there gov no matter where they live but yes I do have a few all batteries that tried to drain just don’t have a distiller but I’ll keep trying and hopefully sort it