Jeweler’s Dirt

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Hi Golddie,

I use ice to dilute my solutions instead of pouring in water. It seems to form the silver chloride better and faster. (Something I learned reading various posts on this forum) I let it settle, siphon and then filter the solution so it’s crystal clear before I drop my gold.

The remaining silver chloride is washed and treated with either sulfuric acid / iron bar or with sodium hydroxide/corn syrup. Both methods are on video on Lazersteve’s website and explain the process very well.

I use copper only after my gold is dropped to recover any possible gold missed and for the PGM's that may be left behind.


Mike
 
Hi qst42know

Thanks for helping out.
I have a lot to learn from a pro like you
Take care
 
Hi Mike
I appreciate your help
These are steps I have not gone threw and they are confusing me
Take care
 
I was talking to jeweler yesterday and it seems like there is very little room for little league refiners like those of us here in this forum to make money from this.
From what i understood by talking to a jeweler he takes his polishing dirt to a person that does refining and they incenerate in front of his eyes and he says he gets back a chunk of unrefined gold
Than he can take that to a company here that has an xray machine and check the karat and give 1 or 3 percent less than spot gold.
Forget about processing scrap gold if these figures are right
I wonder what Harold would do in times like this.
It isn't like those old days
Also I am assuming that after they incenarate they mix the dirt with flux and pour it to a cone mold
 
golddie said:
I was talking to jeweler yesterday and it seems like there is very little room for little league refiners like those of us here in this forum to make money from this.

Of course this there is room for "little league" refiners to make money refining. This thread is testament to it.
 
Maybe if you are in a small town and there isnt a person that incenrates the polishing dirt in front of you and gives back a lump of gold
 
Hi Emmjae
Do you live in a small town
I live in Montreal and the new place that opened up is in the same building as Kitco
These guys are on the 10th floor and I heard they have an xray machine and they pay you on the spot
 
If they are burning it in front of him and fluxing and melting in front of him, you should ask him if he takes his slag and residue from the processing back. If he does, offer to refine it for him. If he doesn't tell him he should take it next time.

From the process you described, the guy doing the burning is keeping most of the value as it will not come down into a bead without a collector. I'll bet the guy doing the burning doesn't throw the residues out.

Of course the only customers the incinerating and melting guy can get are the "little league jewelers" ! :lol:
 
As usual words of wisdom from 4metals. I must admit I'd like to have the residues to treat they must be loaded with precious metals :shock:
 
golddie said:
Hi Emmjae
Do you live in a small town
I live in Montreal and the new place that opened up is in the same building as Kitco
These guys are on the 10th floor and I heard they have an xray machine and they pay you on the spot


Yes I would say it's considered a small town. Only 1 Jewelry store, family owned and the owner is 5th generation. What might help me along for this area is there isn't any kind of refiner close by as far as I can find. He claims the guy who buys his bench filings fly's in once a month to purchase his stuff. Not sure where he's from...yet 8) .

I figure once this customer is satisfied I'll look into finding a second and so on....

Mike
 
Hi 4metals
That is a very good answer and I will have to try to convince these jewelers I know about what you said.
The thing is if you try too hard than they get suspicious.

The people doing the burning is not in that same building
They 2 different people

Hi Emmjae
That sounds like a good place to live, I like small towns
I would like to be like you and treat them in a way I would like to be treated if I was in their place.

Thanks
 
The thing is if you try too hard than they get suspicious.

What you are selling is that you understand what is happening to his material and that you would not pursue the recovery in the way he does.

In 1995 Roland Loewen wrote an excellent book called "Small scale refining of Jewelers waste" an excellent book that all on this forum interested in processing material generated by jewelers should read. In his book he discusses melting sweeps in a crucible in a gas melter.

He details a specific flux mixture and a fixture made specifically to determine the relative fluidity of the flux. bottom line is he did not use a collector. This book set the medium sized refiners in the industry to buzzing and I know of more than one house who tried this method.

He mentions the burnt sweep should be mixed with the flux and slowly added to the crucible until the entire mass is molten. This alone, adding until it is all in and molten, often takes well over an hour. Then he suggests keeping it molten for a minimum of 1 hour to allow all of the particles to come together to form a bar. So with a small jewelers lot, maybe 20 pounds, incineration can take an hour or more, then fluxing and melting another 2 hours minimum. By the time you get your button and leave I'm guessing it is a good 4 hours. (for 20 pounds) How long is your jeweler waiting for this process? An important fact to know.

I admit I tried this method as well. For some sweeps it worked for others it didn't. Having assayed all sweeps before processing it was easy to see this method worked better for the sweeps assaying 7 or 8% precious metals per pound. These were the best of the best sweeps, and usually the exception rather than the rule. The lower the metal content, the worse the process worked. At that time I had access to a Cutler Rotary Furnace and I also conducted sweeps melts using Loewen's flux formula plus copper as a collector. The difference was night and day, the copper collector, benefiting from the rotating of the furnace and the reducing flame, effectively removed 98% of the metal.

If they are adding copper, they must some-how roll their crucible to allow the swirling pool of molten copper to collect the small particles of gold in the sweep. It is easy to tell if copper was added, the bar will be pink and much bigger than expected. What color is your jewelers bar?

I could of made a good living off of the gold left behind by straight melting the sweeps in a fixed crucible without copper as a collector.

So 3 questions for your jeweler.

How long did the incineration and melt take?
Did the operator rock or remove and swirl the crucible routinely?
Was the bar pink?

If the time was less than 4 hours, the crucible wasn't swirled routinely and the bar wasn't pink, ask him to retain all of the slag from the process and offer to have it assayed for him. There is only one way for the guy burning and melting the sweeps to make money, (Other than charging $1000 for the service) and it is in the residues.
 
Hi 4metals
Thanks for that detailed explanation
I will have to re read it again later
I did a quick search of a collector and there is not much
Is there already a thread on this subject and maybe a bit more info
 
A collector is a metal that is put into the melt to increase the overall percentage of metal in the melt. The more metal in a melt, the larger the pool of molten metal and the larger the percentage of the individual particles being caught, or collected, by the molten metal pool.

When sweeps are in a flux and the entire melt is fluid it is still difficult for very very small metallic particles to settle through the flux and collect as a large metallic mass. The collector makes the pool larger. The rotating of a melt increases the chances of the tiny particles of encountering the pool of metal which remains at the lowest point in the furnace while the flux (and small particles of gold trapped in that flux) move above it.
 
In a fire assay sweeps fusion the collector is lead, the lead goes in as litharge (PbO) and as a result is spread throughout the fusion. As it melts it collects the fine particles of gold. The lead is in a ratio much higher than the gold in the fusion, so using lead oxide as a collector in a furnace recovery would require a lot of lead. Plus lead is not a metal you want to be around if you don't have to.

I would suggest copper for a collector or silver if you have it. The benefits of the silver is the bar you produce will be pre-inquarted and only require parting. The silver is easily recycled by cementation.

Copper is used because for a large melt you are putting in copper at the rate of 1/2 pound copper for every pound of sweeps. These copper bars are either refined electrolytically, or sold to a large copper refinery that pays on all PM's and copper.
 
Hi 4metals

Thanks very much
Did the operator rock or remove and swirl the crucible routinely?
If they are adding copper, they must some-how roll their crucible to allow the swirling pool of molten copper to collect
the small particles of gold in the sweep.


You swirl the crucible
I think I get it
 
Hi folks,

Just wanted to follow up on my first job with my local jeweler. He started me off with just under 3 lbs. (47.4 oz.) of buffing wheel dirt along with some filters. He was estimating an ounce of gold possibly and I was able to refine 52.56 grams. I think he’ll be happy. :mrgreen:

I attached a photo fresh out of the water bucket. This was my first attempt at making shot too…lol.

Mike
 

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