That's the same torch I use (now have two) and it works fine. I use the mini firebrick furnace I got from LazerSteve a couple of years ago along with a clay melting dish and it works great for as much as two ounces.
Micro stripping cell
- Thread starter bmgold2
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bmgold2
Well-known member
gold4mike said:
Thanks for the confirmation that this torch should work fine. Two ounces is more than I ever expect to have so I expect this torch will be all I ever need unless I get the right nitric to try silver. Even then, I'd just have to melt in smaller batches.
I didn't get the SMB in the mail today so it should be here tomorrow. Just as a test to see if the torch would melt gold, I cut a little piece off of a 14K scrap ring bigger than I expect to get from this first batch and melted it into a little bead. That worked fine and didn't take very long. I had one of Steve's mini firebrick furnaces when I first joined this forum but it is gone now so I used a little ceramic wool insulation to keep from loosing too much of the heat.
I saved the little bead of 14K gold to compare with the bead I hope to get soon from my refined gold. The 14K isn't as nice as I hope to get but right now, any gold will do for a first try. It should be pretty good though I hope. I keep wondering if I should incinerate the powder I hope to get and refine it a second time just to be sure but I doubt I have enough patience to do that this time. I really want to see that first bit of gold. The 14K doesn't count since I didn't refine it, just melted it.
You can always dissolve it again later and refine it further, it will just take a little longer to dissolve if it's not in powder form when you do it.
bmgold2
Well-known member
Well, I did it!
Nothing really to brag about but it's the first one so it will have to do.
I got the SMB today and poured my gold solution into a jar along with about an equal amount of fresh water and then sprinkled a little bit of the SMB into it. I didn't attempt to measure anything since I don't have a good scale and I didn't know how much gold I was going to have anyway. At first it didn't do anything and then all at once the solution got dark. Soon I seen one clump of powder in the bottom and some other dust. After it settled for a little bit (maybe an hour) I tested the solution and got a negative test for gold so I expect it all dropped out. I scooped out the biggest clump and just left the rest in there for now.
Here's a picture of the still wet powder in a spoon.
I didn't take a picture of it dry but I rinsed it in some water one time (impatient) and then sucked as much water off as I could with a pipette and then force dried it carefully with the mini heat gun.
Next, I went out and fired up the new torch to melt the gold in another cupel. This time I went real slow to avoid any chance of blowing the powder out of the cupel. The first melting I got several buttons of gold so I pushed them close together and remelted them into one bead. One very tiny bead but I wasn't expecting much. As close as I can guess, using the very cheap scale I have, the bead weighs somewhere around 25-30 milligrams. Not much for the time it took me but there is still a little gold stuck in the filter I used and a tiny bit still in the jar I precipitated it in.
It's a start. Here's the best picture I could get of the little bead. I can't tell even with a magnifying glass if it has a pipe but I'm guessing it doesn't. Next one should be much better.
This tiny bead was not just from the micro gold stripping cell. It also includes a little bit of gold that came from some I.C. chips since I knew I wouldn't get much from the small amount of low grade pins I stripped. If I would have had more material to run in the cell I would have gotten a better idea of exactly how the cell worked out but at least I now know that I can do it. I should have spent more time cleaning the precipitated powder from this first attempt but I was impatient just to see some gold. Now all I have to do is get some more material to process. I dropped the tiny bead into a snuffer bottle that I have some more gold stored in. It's the biggest piece in the bottle. I might still try to save this bead in a coin holder. I haven't decided yet but probably will just save it even if it is tiny.
Nothing really to brag about but it's the first one so it will have to do.
I got the SMB today and poured my gold solution into a jar along with about an equal amount of fresh water and then sprinkled a little bit of the SMB into it. I didn't attempt to measure anything since I don't have a good scale and I didn't know how much gold I was going to have anyway. At first it didn't do anything and then all at once the solution got dark. Soon I seen one clump of powder in the bottom and some other dust. After it settled for a little bit (maybe an hour) I tested the solution and got a negative test for gold so I expect it all dropped out. I scooped out the biggest clump and just left the rest in there for now.
Here's a picture of the still wet powder in a spoon.
I didn't take a picture of it dry but I rinsed it in some water one time (impatient) and then sucked as much water off as I could with a pipette and then force dried it carefully with the mini heat gun.
Next, I went out and fired up the new torch to melt the gold in another cupel. This time I went real slow to avoid any chance of blowing the powder out of the cupel. The first melting I got several buttons of gold so I pushed them close together and remelted them into one bead. One very tiny bead but I wasn't expecting much. As close as I can guess, using the very cheap scale I have, the bead weighs somewhere around 25-30 milligrams. Not much for the time it took me but there is still a little gold stuck in the filter I used and a tiny bit still in the jar I precipitated it in.
It's a start. Here's the best picture I could get of the little bead. I can't tell even with a magnifying glass if it has a pipe but I'm guessing it doesn't. Next one should be much better.
This tiny bead was not just from the micro gold stripping cell. It also includes a little bit of gold that came from some I.C. chips since I knew I wouldn't get much from the small amount of low grade pins I stripped. If I would have had more material to run in the cell I would have gotten a better idea of exactly how the cell worked out but at least I now know that I can do it. I should have spent more time cleaning the precipitated powder from this first attempt but I was impatient just to see some gold. Now all I have to do is get some more material to process. I dropped the tiny bead into a snuffer bottle that I have some more gold stored in. It's the biggest piece in the bottle. I might still try to save this bead in a coin holder. I haven't decided yet but probably will just save it even if it is tiny.
Outstanding!
OK, it's little, and the purity is definitely lacking, but I know it's been a long time coming. Congratulations!
Dave
OK, it's little, and the purity is definitely lacking, but I know it's been a long time coming. Congratulations!
Dave
bmgold2
Well-known member
FrugalRefiner said:
Thanks Dave,
There is still a little borax on the bead and the picture didn't turn out real good. The purity is less than I wanted but I just really wanted/needed to see that first bit of gold. I first joined this forum (as bmgold) back on December 30th, 2008 so only a little over 5 years to get under a tenth of a gram of gold. Of course I took a few year break from trying to refine in that 5 year time.
I'm slow AND impatient. Not the best combination of traits but, I've been told, it's not uncommon.
Congradulations. I am excited for you. I recovered and refined my first gold bead from electronics parts(cpu pins) before i joined the forum near the same time you joined. My first one 
was slightly over a gram. It was a great experience. Unfortunatly , I had to back off recovery for a year due to a heart attack. I have been back recycling and have a lot I hope to process,but now where i am located I dont have the proper space to do i,t so I am waiting until I can relocate. I sell the stuff I am not going to bother with on ebay,and use that to help get more scrap. Dont lose that first bead. Mine is somewhere in a box that was missplaced when I had to move. I guess I will have to make another to replace it . I used to be impatient ,but thankfully learned to overcome it. Thank you for mentioning the torch. I needed the info You and Dave posted to help with my decision. I have been using the 4000 model and it is a pain because it is not adjustable. i found the ts 8000 at Home depot. they want 49.95 and i didnt get it because I just wanted the torch and not the mapp gas. Cant find it anywhere by itself at any less cost ,so I will bite the bullet and get one. regards Donn
was slightly over a gram. It was a great experience. Unfortunatly , I had to back off recovery for a year due to a heart attack. I have been back recycling and have a lot I hope to process,but now where i am located I dont have the proper space to do i,t so I am waiting until I can relocate. I sell the stuff I am not going to bother with on ebay,and use that to help get more scrap. Dont lose that first bead. Mine is somewhere in a box that was missplaced when I had to move. I guess I will have to make another to replace it . I used to be impatient ,but thankfully learned to overcome it. Thank you for mentioning the torch. I needed the info You and Dave posted to help with my decision. I have been using the 4000 model and it is a pain because it is not adjustable. i found the ts 8000 at Home depot. they want 49.95 and i didnt get it because I just wanted the torch and not the mapp gas. Cant find it anywhere by itself at any less cost ,so I will bite the bullet and get one. regards Donnsharkhook
Well-known member
Very Nice! Tiny, not perfect? You took trash and made a gold bead, that is the important thing. What you also accomplished is confidence in your ability, and gained knowledge. That is a major step in the right direction in any field. Congratulations!
bmgold2
Well-known member
pgms4me said:
Yes, the adjustable feature of the TS8000 torch is a very nice feature to have. $49.95 isn't a bad price for the torch. I just paid $54.99 for mine at Lowes. That did include one Mapp Gas bottle but I used the cheaper propane for my little melted bead.
sharkhook said:
Thanks Sharkhook, very good point. I got a little piece of gold out of trash. Just as important is, like you said, I now have the confidence that I CAN do it. Up until now I wasn't sure I could turn the precipitated powder back into metal.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0019CQL60/ref=asc_df_B0019CQL602985071?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=nextagus0039487-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B0019CQL60
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BERNZOMATIC-TS4000T-Torch-Brazing-/321328078695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad0a55f67
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BERNZOMATIC-TS8000-TORCH-WITH-ULTRA-SWIRL-HIGH-INTENSITY-FLAME-/201041196343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecefd3537
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BERNZOMATIC-TS4000T-Torch-Brazing-/321328078695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad0a55f67
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BERNZOMATIC-TS8000-TORCH-WITH-ULTRA-SWIRL-HIGH-INTENSITY-FLAME-/201041196343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecefd3537
sharkhook
Well-known member
I have been busier than the proverbial one legged man in a contest the past few days, but I did pick up 6 or 7 more plated rings to work with. I will try to get some pictures of my cell and post them. I am out of ready pins, so the rings will have to do for now. I still need a torch, but that has been covered pretty good, so I know what to look for. I am out of acetylene, and I need a small portable kit anyway. Then I will be putting my power supply together, complete with amp and volt needles.
Again, congratulations on that first button.
Again, congratulations on that first button.
bmgold2
Well-known member
sharkhook said:
Thanks to everyone again, it is nothing to brag about but it does feel good to finally get a little piece of gold from my efforts of scrapping junk.
As for the small portable torch, I wouldn't recommend getting one of the little oxygen/mapp gas torches that use the disposable tanks. They do work good (for very small jobs) but that $10 or so little tank of oxygen only lasts about 10 or 15 minutes. Now, a bit larger but still refillable set up might not be such a bad idea depending on how much you use it. I don't use my oxy/acetylene torches very often but when I need them I'm glad I have them. Both tanks need filled now but, once filled, I get several years out of them before I have to fill them again. Like I said, I don't use them very often. They are not real portable and a smaller set would be nice but the difference in price to fill the tanks was not a lot between the smaller and larger tanks. The real cost was buying the tanks in the first place.
Keep us posted on how you set up your power supply. I know I'd be interested in how you rig it up.
sharkhook
Well-known member
I mainly need a new torch for soldering and removing solder on copper pipe and plumbing. Since I am needing it, I am going to step up from the manual type to a the electronic one with Mapp. I have used those little oxygen tanks and they never hold enough to complete anything I have tried them on. I'm not even sure why they make them.
sharkhook
Well-known member
OK, I finally got a few pictures. I tried to video parts of running 8 rings in the cell, one at a time. I didn't know the cameras auto shut off worked even when videoing, so that is out. I still have the same acid originally used and it did not work quite as well, I think it has absorbed to much moisture. That is OK too, as I planned to start washing what I have when these rings were done and the powders have settled. I didn't show the basket since I didn't use it here. The bowl is holding 1 1/2 cups of Sulfuric Acid, it is dirty looking from use and hasn't cleared completely from the last use a few days ago.
This is the complete cell with the bowl I sit it in for safety efforts.
And the power supply I am using. When the light goes out, the gold is gone from the rings. On small batch's of pins, the light seldom comes on. I remove the basket of pins when the foaming stops, after stirring the pins a few times. It takes 1 amp for the light to come on and it goes off in the neighborhood of .85 amps, give or take .05 amp. It is a power supply for a Coleman Electric Cooler, and rated at 13.8 volt and 5.25 amp. When using a meter, I have never had it use over 1.45 amp, and the bulb will slowly dim as the process is finishing. Even on the hardest use I have tried, it quickly drops down to just over 1 amp, then slowly drops until it stops.
This is the complete cell with the bowl I sit it in for safety efforts.
And the power supply I am using. When the light goes out, the gold is gone from the rings. On small batch's of pins, the light seldom comes on. I remove the basket of pins when the foaming stops, after stirring the pins a few times. It takes 1 amp for the light to come on and it goes off in the neighborhood of .85 amps, give or take .05 amp. It is a power supply for a Coleman Electric Cooler, and rated at 13.8 volt and 5.25 amp. When using a meter, I have never had it use over 1.45 amp, and the bulb will slowly dim as the process is finishing. Even on the hardest use I have tried, it quickly drops down to just over 1 amp, then slowly drops until it stops.
bmgold2
Well-known member
Looks pretty good sharkhook,
I look forward to finding out how much gold you get from your cell. I'd guess the 8 rings probably have more gold on them than the total amount of material I ran through my cell the first time. I have been collecting more stuff to run through my cell but now that I finally got my first tiny piece of gold and know that I can do it, I'm not in as big of a hurry to run them until I've got enough to be worth setting it back up. I'll also have to add a little more acid to make up for the acid I diluted and filtered to get the powder out for my first button before I run any more parts.
I just checked my jar of used acid and it is still too dark to see light through even with a flashlight. There is a tiny bit of powder on the bottom of the jar but not enough to worry about yet. I don't know if it is caused from the brand of acid I used (Liquid Fire) or if it is normal for the acid to remain dark like this. It was dark right out of the bottle. The diluted acid is a clear, light-green color. There is also a little bit of powder on the bottom of that jar that made it through my filter. Next time I will avoid the filter completely at least until the gold is in solution. I'll also spend more time cleaning the precipitated powder to get a little higher purity button. Might even process it a second time. I did examine the cupel I used to melt my gold in and can see a few more tiny beads left in it. It's hard to get all of it to combine together when it was such a small amount to start with.
I look forward to finding out how much gold you get from your cell. I'd guess the 8 rings probably have more gold on them than the total amount of material I ran through my cell the first time. I have been collecting more stuff to run through my cell but now that I finally got my first tiny piece of gold and know that I can do it, I'm not in as big of a hurry to run them until I've got enough to be worth setting it back up. I'll also have to add a little more acid to make up for the acid I diluted and filtered to get the powder out for my first button before I run any more parts.
I just checked my jar of used acid and it is still too dark to see light through even with a flashlight. There is a tiny bit of powder on the bottom of the jar but not enough to worry about yet. I don't know if it is caused from the brand of acid I used (Liquid Fire) or if it is normal for the acid to remain dark like this. It was dark right out of the bottle. The diluted acid is a clear, light-green color. There is also a little bit of powder on the bottom of that jar that made it through my filter. Next time I will avoid the filter completely at least until the gold is in solution. I'll also spend more time cleaning the precipitated powder to get a little higher purity button. Might even process it a second time. I did examine the cupel I used to melt my gold in and can see a few more tiny beads left in it. It's hard to get all of it to combine together when it was such a small amount to start with.
sharkhook
Well-known member
I am not sure the exact amount, but I think it was around 100 grams of low grade pins, maybe another 10-20 grams of mid grade pins. Plus 20 or so of the ends from HDMI cables and 12-14 or so rings in total in the cell now. What ever it comes out to in the end, it is more than I had before trying it. I am pleased with it, it seems small enough to be convenient but big enough to work at the rate I tend to gather materials to work with for now.
bmgold2
Well-known member
I was searching this site and ran across a post by samuel-a where he says:
My bottle of concentrated sulfuric acid that I used is at least 3 or 4 years old and who knows how long it sat on the shelf at the hardware. This might just be why my acid was so dark even before I used it.
Has anyone else used Liquid Fire brand sulfuric acid and was their new acid dark and thick? Now I'm wondering if I should find a new bottle (?washed out bleach bottle or plastic soda pop bottle?) and transfer my acid to a fresh bottle. Will it eventually "eat" the bottle and spill out? I'd hate to pick it up one day and have the bottom drop out or something. If nothing else, I think I will find a bucket and put that bottle in the bucket just in case.
Edit: I just checked the MSDS and didn't find anything about it reacting to plastic and I can't imagine that they would sell it in a bottle that could be destroyed with the contents especially when the contents are concentrated acid.
It listed the contents as Sulfuric Acid and Rodine 31A (ACID INHIBITOR ADDITIVE) and the APPEARANCE AND ODOR: Dark Amber Liquid with slight pungent odor so the color is normal.
My bottle of concentrated sulfuric acid that I used is at least 3 or 4 years old and who knows how long it sat on the shelf at the hardware. This might just be why my acid was so dark even before I used it.
Has anyone else used Liquid Fire brand sulfuric acid and was their new acid dark and thick? Now I'm wondering if I should find a new bottle (?washed out bleach bottle or plastic soda pop bottle?) and transfer my acid to a fresh bottle. Will it eventually "eat" the bottle and spill out? I'd hate to pick it up one day and have the bottom drop out or something. If nothing else, I think I will find a bucket and put that bottle in the bucket just in case.
Edit: I just checked the MSDS and didn't find anything about it reacting to plastic and I can't imagine that they would sell it in a bottle that could be destroyed with the contents especially when the contents are concentrated acid.
It listed the contents as Sulfuric Acid and Rodine 31A (ACID INHIBITOR ADDITIVE) and the APPEARANCE AND ODOR: Dark Amber Liquid with slight pungent odor so the color is normal.
sharkhook
Well-known member
Check for flower vases. I found one that holds my sulfuric bottle easily. I keep it sitting inside the vase. Might be something better out there, but that is what I had on hand.
I wouldn't rely on that assumption. You're probably fairly safe with sulfuric and hydrochloric in the heavy plastic bottles they came in, but you should always store them in secondary containers as you've mentioned. Nitric, on the other hand, is really hard on most plastics and I've seen concentrated nitric sold in plastic.bmgold2 said:
Soda bottles usually aren't a good choice. If you want to put the acid in a new (used) bottle, be sure to check the bottom for the code and be sure it's compatible with your acid. The thicker the better.
Dave
Many times packaging is not made for long term storage, Manufactures believe you are purchasing the chemicals for use and will not be storing it long term, although they pick packaging that will safely hold the chemical for a fair period of time, most plastics can and will degrade over time sunlight can also take its toll, I have had nitric acid glass bottles hat the lids decay over time, if it has been stored for a long time and the bottle still holds acid I would put it in a newer bottle (same type as used before) or one compatible with solution, containment for storing acids and other liquid chemical solutions is just good procedures as well as proper storage for all of your chemicals, many chemicals should not be stored in the same location, if you have not studied safe storage of your chemicals I suggest you do so, A Google search can give many details of safely storing labatory chemicals, as well as other safety procedures.
