flexyman said:
OK Barren,
You have peaked my interest. I am going to try a different aproach because,
by your questions, many others will gain knowledge. There is a famous quotation that
that states the following " The first step to Wisdom is to admit ones Ignorance".
I will have to be the first to admit my ignorance on the subjects discussed on this forum.
But like I have always told my emplyees there are no stupid questions. The only stupid question is the one that you don't ask and it causes a HUGE screw up.
One of the fundimantal differences between Electrolytic refining and Electrolytic
extraction, lies in the The Anode.
In Electrolytic refining of Copper, the Anode is a slab of Copper alloyed with other matels
including Precious metals. This copper slab is incased in an Anode-bag, to prevent un-
disolved particles from fouling the Copper Sulphate Electrolyte.
The Anode and Cathode Electrodes are placed , a distance apart,in an Electroplating bath
When an apropriate Direct current Electrical supply is applied to the Electrodes then
Electrical current flows. This Copper Anode goes into solution and is diposited on the
Cathode, all the metals that did not disolve are left inside the Anode bag.
Theoretically no acid is consumed and none generated in Electrolyticrefining,since the acid going into combination with the Copper at the Anode is again released as free acid by its deposition at the Cathode.
In this process are we not already dealing with Copper Sulphate which is already an impregnated solution? Therfor can I assume that during this process that the copper anode is disolved but we can not say that 100 % of the copper from that Anode is deposited on the cathode because the flow of voltage throught the solution will charge the exisiting copper in solution and there is an equaling out of the material that gets deposited on the Cathode to keep the solution impregnated.
And I agree about the impurities being left in the Anode bag. I have herd of pantyhose being used for this in certain applications.
"The flow of current for this process" actually I think it is the flow of Voltage that is creating this process This would be the 6V to 12V application that is applied to the process.Remeber opposites attract that is why we have + and - for the flow of electricity. Current is actually the measure in AMPS, or the load you are putting on the application, the amount of power you are useing to complete the process. individuals think that electricity flows thru wire but it dosen't, it flows on the outside surface area of wire. This is the reasone that a cable with a lot of little wires in it will handle a load more efficently that a cable with just one wire it is because the load is being spread out over the surface area.
When Copper already in acid,the conditions are intirely different. The goal then is, to deposit Copper out of the solution by Electrolysis, while no metal is going into solution
Both solutions can be impregnated at the start of their processes, in this one we are trying to remove the copper disolved in solution by the reaction of an iron atom that copper reacts with to bring it out of solution or another like metal and in the previous we are not concerned about the soultion staying impregnated with copper?
This involves the use of an Anode which will conduct the electricity into the copper
solution, while at the same time the Anode itself remains undesolved. Hence to make the The Anode insoluable, the Anode is incased in a Electrolytic Diaphragm. Diaphragm is a partition between the Anode and Cathode,which permits the passage of electric current but prevents the mixing of the Electrolytes in which the electrodes are immeresed
Have Fun
In the process that is in discussion now I think that the Anode will have to disolve to a certain extent for the reaction of the iron with the copper to complete the reaction. In the case of the teracata pot if i'm correct most of the ones if not all of them that are not glazed will have soak thru to some extent, therfore there is some transfer of fluid along with the transfer of copper.
Now unless you are totally relying on the transfer of + to - ions to complete the reaction and not a reaction between the Anode and the copper I think that is possible as well in this application but I thiink you will still have some depleation of the Anode, such as useing a solid copper anode that will give off more voltage because of a large surface area and charging more of the copper in solution to attach to the Cathode than is being give up by the Anode. You can also have a depleation of the Cathode under certain conditions with this process. Maybe not with AP but with nitric I had the Cathode disolve as well.
If you use a cell that only the voltage can pass thru and not the copper ions that have reacted with the iron Anode then you are defeating the purpose of this type of cell aren't we? Because in doing this we still have the copper mixed with the PM's.
This type of membrane would work fine in a battery in which it take the 2 types of electrolytes to cause an electrical reaction without the electrolytes mixing. In our objective are we really concerned about the elctrolyte mixing? We are dealing with one electrolyte and we are just trying to clean it up. not all of the reacted copper with adhere to the Cathode some will settle to the bottom of the canister along with PM's that were in solution, we are trying to keep these apart.
