again I agree,Ms Hoke is the single best thing you can study for a first step.
Read her book several times and it will all string together properly
Read her book several times and it will all string together properly
What a find! I was surprised!
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anachronism
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Palladium said:
Absolutely 100 percent correct. It's no good at all for this.
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I'm reading Hoke's book as well as searching the forum for everything. I've been toying with the AP method, in tiny amounts, and it seems to be getting me some results. I got a ton of scrap 925 yesterday from a pawn shop owner who practically gave it to me and I found a thick 925 ring, but it has a 14k oval w/ initials on it and it's a separate piece to the ring, but for all my efforts I can't get the damn thing to separate from the ring. I wish I had some nitric! You guys rock! Thanks for the replies and I'll take any suggestions or help you can offer.
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Sorry about the crap pics. I went at it for over an hour and only got one corner off. There's an obvious seam and it's a separate piece from the ring. I thought I had it when I got the one corned pried up and could see that it was just a gold oval set ontop of the ring. Just have no idea what's holding it there.
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Gonna try heat again tomorrow with the mapp torch, just gonna have to go slow cuz there's only about 180°F difference in melting points between silver and 14k gold I believe, the gold melting lower than the silver. (Correct me if I'm wrong please). If that doesn't work, I'll try the poor man's nitric. I really appreciate the input everyone. I love this forum! There's so much education on here and I just wanna learn everything at once hahaha.
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And just to be clear, poor man's nitric is the same as poor man's aqua regia? I'm currently searching poor man's nitric and poor man's aqua regia is what I'm getting. So far I've purchased Hcl 31.5, hydrogen peroxide, stump out/sodium metabisulfite, Ammonium nitrate (in the form of instant cold compresses from Walmart), isopropyl alcohol (rubbing), nail polish remover (can't remember) a ton of baking soda, fish tank bubbler with tubing, and a bunch of hardware and safety equipment. Only thing I've attempted so far is the AP method on some filled gold jewelry scrap shown in some of the above pics. Still researching the processes for everything else. Again, the search function has been my main problem, but I'm being vigilant.
upcyclist
Well-known member
IF you want to separate the two, the mass will probably keep it from heating too quickly. If you hold the ring upside-down, the gold part will drop off when the solder melts.
That's if you even want to separate them--melting them together would probably make for an approximate inquarting of the karat gold.
That's if you even want to separate them--melting them together would probably make for an approximate inquarting of the karat gold.
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Any suggestions on what process I should use? I'm only experienced do the AP method at the moment. I got a hot plate as well. Was gonna try a small batch of e-scrap with some gold scrap I've collected and do it together. I'm most likely going to attempt it this weekend. Saturday most likely.
DylanDownright84,
Here is my suggestion, collect scrap do not worry about processing it yet (study how to prepare the materials).
Then get a good batch of memory fingers, and study the copper chloride leach (what you call AP) study it well then just when you think you know everything about it study it more), use it to recover gold from the memory fingers, keep studying. the memory fingers only deal with a few metals (none of which will complicate things, this way you observe reactions and gain more understanding.
Then work on karat or placer mined gold, learn it well and work on recovery and refining.
Then you gain a good experience in the reactions and complications with these easy materials to recover and refine, then you keep studying to gain more knowledge on the more complicated materials involving other metals or materials that make recovery or refining more difficult.
Do not make the same mistake I did by going out and buying chemicals you may need, buy what you need now, and learn to use them and learn to use them safely, (a lot of your study should be safety related, dealing with waste is a good place to start). I have chemical I purchased ten years ago I still have not needed. I have fancy expensive lab glass I still do not wish to use or break (much of my lab glass is stuff from a kitchen) even many of the chemical I use now I make or come from other reactions as byproducts)...
You do not need to spend much money to get started, your lab can be built from supplies of a grocery, hardware and second-hand stores, many lab supplies can be found at your local second-hand store (or even your wife's kitchen (note I said study safety taking your wife's kitchen supplies is not acting safely). then if you need special lab glass buy it (with the gold you have from your melting dish), after you know you will actually need it.
To learn this most of your work will be study and research, without that under your belt before you try to recover and refine you just as well start throwing gold into the trash because that is where it will go without you even knowing it.
Do not get gold fever and attempt processing your materials before you gain a good understanding of the processes and problems you will likely face and have a clear understanding of how to correct things gone wrong or how not to make a thing go wrong...
99% study and 10% lab will = shining gold in your melting dish. lab work with little study = your gold in your trash. the idea is to get gold out of the trash not put it there unknowingly.
Here is my suggestion, collect scrap do not worry about processing it yet (study how to prepare the materials).
Then get a good batch of memory fingers, and study the copper chloride leach (what you call AP) study it well then just when you think you know everything about it study it more), use it to recover gold from the memory fingers, keep studying. the memory fingers only deal with a few metals (none of which will complicate things, this way you observe reactions and gain more understanding.
Then work on karat or placer mined gold, learn it well and work on recovery and refining.
Then you gain a good experience in the reactions and complications with these easy materials to recover and refine, then you keep studying to gain more knowledge on the more complicated materials involving other metals or materials that make recovery or refining more difficult.
Do not make the same mistake I did by going out and buying chemicals you may need, buy what you need now, and learn to use them and learn to use them safely, (a lot of your study should be safety related, dealing with waste is a good place to start). I have chemical I purchased ten years ago I still have not needed. I have fancy expensive lab glass I still do not wish to use or break (much of my lab glass is stuff from a kitchen) even many of the chemical I use now I make or come from other reactions as byproducts)...
You do not need to spend much money to get started, your lab can be built from supplies of a grocery, hardware and second-hand stores, many lab supplies can be found at your local second-hand store (or even your wife's kitchen (note I said study safety taking your wife's kitchen supplies is not acting safely). then if you need special lab glass buy it (with the gold you have from your melting dish), after you know you will actually need it.
To learn this most of your work will be study and research, without that under your belt before you try to recover and refine you just as well start throwing gold into the trash because that is where it will go without you even knowing it.
Do not get gold fever and attempt processing your materials before you gain a good understanding of the processes and problems you will likely face and have a clear understanding of how to correct things gone wrong or how not to make a thing go wrong...
99% study and 10% lab will = shining gold in your melting dish. lab work with little study = your gold in your trash. the idea is to get gold out of the trash not put it there unknowingly.
glorycloud
Well-known member
butcher said:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote edited for conciseness and to maximize understanding of this VERY common malady.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Very much appreciated butcher! I was gonna start another experiment this weekend but decided to hold off. I'm still reading through hokes book. All I have going on at the moment is some gold filled scrap in AP. Not trying to start anything just yet. I have been reading all the posts on the forum I can about the poor man's nitric method and have decided to hold off for now. I did find a place locally that sells nitric acid though, industrial chemicals inc. In Richmond, Virginia. Just gonna keep with making silver bullion and stirring the AP mix daily until I decide what to do next. The AP method worked great on the e-scrap, except I have this thick gray sludge in with the foils. I haven't gotten any further than the filtering part and it's all still in the filters sitting in a glass jar. I'm on a pretty tight budget so I get stuff from the dollar store and then the cheap utensils from Walmart. Thanks for the replies everyone!
Do not skimp on your beakers or look for Corningware to process in, if your glass breaks it will cost you a lot more than a few dollars!
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Thanks Nick! I've got a few pyrex glass measuring cups, but am in dire need of beakers and whatnot. Gonna search around and see if I can find a set somewhere that won't break my wallet.
Dylan, do not heat those pyrex glass measuring cups. They're made for measuring, not heating. They're very thick, and as they're heated, stresses are created between the hotter and cooler parts. So even though they're pyrex, they can fail catastrophically. You'll find that beakers and other pyrex labware intended for heating are much thinner, which reduces the stresses involved.
Dave
Dave
Topher_osAUrus
Well-known member
I understand being on a tight budget Dylan, but proper set up is something that shouldn't be skimped on, glassware, ppe and other safety stuff in particular.
Don't get me wrong, you can do great work with some second hand coffee pots, so long as you have a good corningware pyroceram piece underneath it, for when it inevitably fails. It may last a week, a month, a decade.. But, after processing lots and lots of escrap, or jewelry with stones, it's going to fail. Just be prepared.
Then, with the money that you make from your first bits of gold you carefully recover and refine, invest some in better equipment, and a little in more scrap to keep the ball rolling. Trust me, it's possible. So long as you get your escrap free or cheap, or pay 50-75% spot for karat and goldfilled stuff, eventually you will have all your necessary gear and come out ahead.
A fume hood is also a necessity, so is good nitric, if you are planning on recovering and refining silver.
It was mentioned earlier, but, goldfilled in AP, just simply isnt the way to go. I suppose it may eventually reach your end game result, but to have it recovered and refined may take 3 months +++, instead of the 2-3 days it can be done in, with the proper procedures.
Butcher is the king of advice, saying to study while you collect and save. Well, those words of wisdom are spot on, and second to none. This place is a cornucopia of knowledge, ripe for the picking. You may have to sift through to find what you seek, but I can GUARANTEE that it's here. All you have to do, is go right on ahead and help yourself, and the forum will be more than kind in return.
If my sorry arse can do it, ANYONE can.
Don't get me wrong, you can do great work with some second hand coffee pots, so long as you have a good corningware pyroceram piece underneath it, for when it inevitably fails. It may last a week, a month, a decade.. But, after processing lots and lots of escrap, or jewelry with stones, it's going to fail. Just be prepared.
Then, with the money that you make from your first bits of gold you carefully recover and refine, invest some in better equipment, and a little in more scrap to keep the ball rolling. Trust me, it's possible. So long as you get your escrap free or cheap, or pay 50-75% spot for karat and goldfilled stuff, eventually you will have all your necessary gear and come out ahead.
A fume hood is also a necessity, so is good nitric, if you are planning on recovering and refining silver.
It was mentioned earlier, but, goldfilled in AP, just simply isnt the way to go. I suppose it may eventually reach your end game result, but to have it recovered and refined may take 3 months +++, instead of the 2-3 days it can be done in, with the proper procedures.
Butcher is the king of advice, saying to study while you collect and save. Well, those words of wisdom are spot on, and second to none. This place is a cornucopia of knowledge, ripe for the picking. You may have to sift through to find what you seek, but I can GUARANTEE that it's here. All you have to do, is go right on ahead and help yourself, and the forum will be more than kind in return.
If my sorry arse can do it, ANYONE can.