Any ideas?

[wisco_gold]

Any ideas as to what this object might be and if it contains any pm's of course? It is from a B-47. Ive reversed image searched and came up with nothing and also looked through an online parts manual for the plane but cannot find it. It says Burndy on it.

In addition can anyone tell me what this tan colored precipitate might be? I was checking the nitric I decanted from a batch of flat-packs and bga's I'm processing with an aqueous solution of NaCL aka saltwater and after leaving it settle all night this is what I found. I'm not going any further with it until I know what it is.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Any ideas as to what this object might be and if it contains any pm's of course? It is from a B-47. Ive reversed image searched and came up with nothing and also looked through an online parts manual for the plane but cannot find it. It says Burndy on it.

In addition can anyone tell me what this tan colored precipitate might be? I was checking the nitric I decanted from a batch of flat-packs and bga's I'm processing with an aqueous solution of NaCL aka saltwater and after leaving it settle all night this is what I found. I'm not going any further with it until I know what it is.

The item is hard do say, but some kind of insulator, resistor or capacitor?
Regarding your precipitate, how about describing what you did properly?
I'm confused, is it from Nitric or from Brine or both?

 

[Martijn]

Looks old and fibrous to me. Careful, those white cases could contain asbestos. Maybe its a big fuse or a resistor?

Edited to remove a question.

 

[lazersteve]

Zooming in on top view of unknown item reveals some sort of installation note:
Possibly "M--- OF ENTERING CURRENT "

???

Maybe a resistive heater of some sort.

Steve

 

[Yggdrasil]

Zooming in on top view of unknown item reveals some sort of installation note:
Possibly "M--- OF ENTERING CURRENT "

???

Maybe a resistive heater of some sort.

Steve

I can read "Operating Current", so Maybe "Main Operating Current"?

 

[macfixer01]

I can read "Operating Current", so Maybe "Main Operating Current"?

I think it probably says maximum operating current? And it does look like some sort of heater.

 

[wisco_gold]

Regarding your precipitate, how about describing what you did properly?
I'm confused, is it from Nitric or from Brine or both?

Sorry about the lack of information; I know better than that. I dry ashed a mixed lot of flat packs and bga's, ran them through a blender dedicated to refining until it was mostly fine dust, which I loaded into a coffee pot that I use for refining . I covered the mass in water and then began adding fuming nitric acid a little bit at a time over the course of a couple of hours until there was no more reaction with addition of nitric.Heat was applied throughout the process along with occasional stirring. The solution was allowed to cool and then was vacuum filtered, yielding the turquoise colored solution shown. I made a concentrated solution of salt+water and added the solution turned cloudy as was left over night. When I checked on it that's what I found.

I thank all of you for help!

 

[Yggdrasil]

Sorry about the lack of information; I know better than that. I dry ashed a mixed lot of flat packs and bga's, ran them through a blender dedicated to refining until it was mostly fine dust, which I loaded into a coffee pot that I use for refining . I covered the mass in water and then began adding fuming nitric acid a little bit at a time over the course of a couple of hours until there was no more reaction with addition of nitric.Heat was applied throughout the process along with occasional stirring. The solution was allowed to cool and then was vacuum filtered, yielding the turquoise colored solution shown. I made a concentrated solution of salt+water and added the solution turned cloudy as was left over night. When I checked on it that's what I found.

I thank all of you for help!

I'm puzzled, why did you add Brine to the Nitric?
It is a leach used for ores sometimes, but I have never heard about it for this use.
Where did you find this procedure?
Did you make sure all the black stuff was removed first?

 

[galenrog]

Resistive heater. Late 1940s to mid 1950s. If it came from a B-47, as you say, it was used in cockpit or one of several manned spaces. There is not much left of yours, as what you have was part of a larger heater assembly.

 

[BShan]

http://images.google.com/?q=burndy+aircraft+fuse
I think Galenrog is probably right. Used as a heater for something temperature sensitive. A google image search for burndy aircraft fuse shows some similar, if not identical, components.

Time for more Galenrog

Edit: I think Galenrog, amongst many others, are probably right.

 

[wisco_gold]

I'm puzzled, why did you add Brine to the Nitric?
It is a leach used for ores sometimes, but I have never heard about it for this use.
Where did you find this procedure?
Did you make sure all the black stuff was removed first?

No I did not remove all of the black stuff because I could clearly see a lot of gold flakes in the mix and wanted to avoid throwing the baby out with the wash water.

As for the brine question; I just used enough water to dissolve some plain table salt to test the solution to test for the presence of silver nitrate, which I've not only see preformed on you tube but have been advised by senior members of this forum that this is a viable method to check if silver is in solution. I only dissolved the salt in water so as not to have granules of salt mixed in with my precipitate.


I decanted the nitric solution off the precipitate so as to get a better picture and then poured the solution back over it to prevent the possibility of any of it becoming airborne and make anybody extremely sick if it just so happened to be palladium.

 

[Yggdrasil]

No I did not remove all of the black stuff because I could clearly see a lot of gold flakes in the mix and wanted to avoid throwing the baby out with the wash water.

As for the brine question; I just used enough water to dissolve some plain table salt to test the solution to test for the presence of silver nitrate, which I've not only see preformed on you tube but have been advised by senior members of this forum that this is a viable method to check if silver is in solution. I only dissolved the salt in water so as not to have granules of salt mixed in with my precipitate.


I decanted the nitric solution off the precipitate so as to get a better picture and then poured the solution back over it to prevent the possibility of any of it becoming airborne and make anybody extremely sick if it just so happened to be palladium.

Why did you not research properly first?

The black stuff is Carbon and it loves to hold on to Gold, your incineration was not finished if there was black left.
Incineration is done to completely burn off all the Carbon so your Gold do not bind up.
When the leaching is finished one might test for Silver, for IC's, flat packs and such I would not bother.
If you add Brine you might get into a situation that will also dissolve the Gold, a leach called SSN SaturatedSalineNitric.
Please do not stray off until you understand what you do.

 

[Martijn]

Again, I need to point out that if this is a military airplane heater from the 1940's era, expect asbestos fibres to be in there. There were not many good plastics around back then to insulate and resist heat. One that was used a lot is China or porcelain, if it's not that, be carefull!

The white blocks do not look like any heater element to me, more like a parallel shunt resistor. Why would a heater have closed visible compartments inside an insulating block?
A fuse then makes more sense to me, to look at the burnout wires with windows, but i'm only guessing. on the other side, a fuse would not have parallel burnout wires..
With a resistor it would not be needed to monitor the resistance bars?

Anyway, be safe and store it in a closed zip bag, do not take it with you in the house until you're sure what you have.

Martijn.

 

[wisco_gold]

Why did you not research properly first?

The black stuff is Carbon and it loves to hold on to Gold, your incineration was not finished if there was black left.
Incineration is done to completely burn off all the Carbon so your Gold do not bind up.
When the leaching is finished one might test for Silver, for IC's, flat packs and such I would not bother.
If you add Brine you might get into a situation that will also dissolve the Gold, a leach called SSN SaturatedSalineNitric.
Please do not stray off until you understand what you do.

I understand that the black stuff is carbon as I have studied for years and am proficient in organic chemistry. I not only used a propane torch to incinerate, but put into a small DIY furnace in a cast iron skillet and the chips in it looked white when the coals had burned out. Upon blending and adding liquid (water and then nitric)it turned back to black looking. I'm assuming the insides where not completely incinerated, but after the amount of time it was subjected to torching and in my homemade furnace I'm assuming it's the inadequacy of my furnace and not a lack of studying.

The solution I added the brine to was waste solution. It had already been filtered off the material being refined and I seen no harm in doing so as it was about to be neutralized and disposed of. I added it to test for silver out of curiosity as I have read that some bga's have silver at the point of contact.

I will hold off on refining anymore chips until I have a furnace hit enough to ensure complete incineration. I appreciate this forum greatly and the time you veteran members take to explain stuff to newbees like myself. I though take the safety of my family and others into consideration when I approach any endeavor as it is extremely selfish not to.

By the lack of an answer regarding the tannish precipitate from anyone leads me to believe no one is sure and that is fine as I myself am not sure and the only way I could be short of sending it off to be assayed would be to find the composition of all the types of chips I refined and looking at what reactions would've taken place and that's a little to much work to be worthwhile as In sure it's nothing if value.

Again, I need to point out that if this is a military airplane heater from the 1940's era, expect asbestos fibres to be in there. There were not many good plastics around back then to insulate and resist heat. One that was used a lot is China or porcelain, if it's not that, be carefull!

The white blocks do not look like any heater element to me, more like a parallel shunt resistor. Why would a heater have closed visible compartments inside an insulating block?
A fuse then makes more sense to me, to look at the burnout wires with windows, but i'm only guessing. on the other side, a fuse would not have parallel burnout wires..
With a resistor it would not be needed to monitor the resistance bars?

Anyway, be safe and store it in a closed zip bag, do not take it with you in the house until you're sure what you have.

Martijn.

You sir are correct in that it is an asbestos containing material. I am actually certified for exterior asbestos removal and emergency asbestos removal of up to 3 cubic yds. Upon realizing that it did in fact contain asbestos (which I hadn't until you pointed it out) I disposed of it accordingly. Thank you for your dedication to keeping people safe, it truly is nice to know there are people in the world that genuinely care about the well being of others.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I understand that the black stuff is carbon as I have studied for years and am proficient in organic chemistry. I not only used a propane torch to incinerate, but put into a small DIY furnace in a cast iron skillet and the chips in it looked white when the coals had burned out. Upon blending and adding liquid (water and then nitric)it turned back to black looking. I'm assuming the insides where not completely incinerated, but after the amount of time it was subjected to torching and in my homemade furnace I'm assuming it's the inadequacy of my furnace and not a lack of studying.

The solution I added the brine to was waste solution. It had already been filtered off the material being refined and I seen no harm in doing so as it was about to be neutralized and disposed of. I added it to test for silver out of curiosity as I have read that some bga's have silver at the point of contact.

I will hold off on refining anymore chips until I have a furnace hit enough to ensure complete incineration. I appreciate this forum greatly and the time you veteran members take to explain stuff to newbees like myself. I though take the safety of my family and others into consideration when I approach any endeavor as it is extremely selfish not to.

By the lack of an answer regarding the tannish precipitate from anyone leads me to believe no one is sure and that is fine as I myself am not sure and the only way I could be short of sending it off to be assayed would be to find the composition of all the types of chips I refined and looking at what reactions would've taken place and that's a little to much work to be worthwhile as In sure it's nothing if value.

You sir are correct in that it is an asbestos containing material. I am actually certified for exterior asbestos removal and emergency asbestos removal of up to 3 cubic yds. Upon realizing that it did in fact contain asbestos (which I hadn't until you pointed it out) I disposed of it accordingly. Thank you for your dedication to keeping people safe, it truly is nice to know there are people in the world that genuinely care about the well being of others.

As you have discovered through your studies one need a proper description to solve issues.
And your description is quite lacking.
Your last post indicate it is waste anyway so just run it through your waste treatment.
Probably Iron salts.

 

[wisco_gold]

As you have discovered through your studies one need a proper description to solve issues.
And your description is quite lacking.
Your last post indicate it is waste anyway so just run it through your waste treatment.
Probably Iron salts.

I get the very distinct feeling you're just trying to be difficult with me and for what reason I do not know. I feel that I've been nothing but respectful to any member that I've had the pleasure of conversation with and try to show genuine gratitude for all that you more experienced members do for the refining community.

I'm very confident that my initial description was not lacking and I only reiterated it further since and quite patiently I might add as I feel you've been getting testier and testier with each reply. Perhaps maybe it was your inability to comprehend said description? I clearly state that I added "brine" to nitric I decanted off a mixed batch of chips I had been refining and found a unknown precipitate and was wondering if anyone knew what it was.

You did not know what it was and that is fine but to go on and on and all but blatantly insult my intelligence and the efforts I put forth really isn't called for in my opinion. I see you threaten to ban people for getting an attitude with senior members, which if that becomes the case here no warning is necessary please remove my privileges to be a member of this forum without further ado and we'll all move on with our lives. If you do not ban me I'd not only appreciate but expect the same respect I afford to you and everyone else I encounter. I envy your knowledge on this subject matter and am here to learn and hopefully someday pass along the things I've learned.


Now that Ive gotten that off my chest.....does anyone know if this platter is silver plated or sterling? It's quite worn and I can just barley make out Oneida Silversmiths on the back side. I've done quite a bit of reading on the company and to my understanding they did plate silver dishware in their beginning but moved on to solid sterling in later years and that the stainless they used was magnetic which this platter is not in the slightest magnetic. In addition I have this small plate commemorating the Golden Anniversary of the Lutheran Brotherhood from 1917 to 1967 but can find no images or references to this piece. This organization was a fortune 500 company and as the name implys a close knit network of colleagues; I have a feeling this plate may actually be karat gold. It's probably not but from reading of the wealth of the members I think it's in the realm of possibility.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I get the very distinct feeling you're just trying to be difficult with me and for what reason I do not know. I feel that I've been nothing but respectful to any member that I've had the pleasure of conversation with and try to show genuine gratitude for all that you more experienced members do for the refining community.

I'm very confident that my initial description was not lacking and I only reiterated it further since and quite patiently I might add as I feel you've been getting testier and testier with each reply. Perhaps maybe it was your inability to comprehend said description? I clearly state that I added "brine" to nitric I decanted off a mixed batch of chips I had been refining and found a unknown precipitate and was wondering if anyone knew what it was.

You did not know what it was and that is fine but to go on and on and all but blatantly insult my intelligence and the efforts I put forth really isn't called for in my opinion. I see you threaten to ban people for getting an attitude with senior members, which if that becomes the case here no warning is necessary please remove my privileges to be a member of this forum without further ado and we'll all move on with our lives. If you do not ban me I'd not only appreciate but expect the same respect I afford to you and everyone else I encounter. I envy your knowledge on this subject matter and am here to learn and hopefully someday pass along the things I've learned.


Now that Ive gotten that off my chest.....does anyone know if this platter is silver plated or sterling? It's quite worn and I can just barley make out Oneida Silversmiths on the back side. I've done quite a bit of reading on the company and to my understanding they did plate silver dishware in their beginning but moved on to solid sterling in later years and that the stainless they used was magnetic which this platter is not in the slightest magnetic. In addition I have this small plate commemorating the Golden Anniversary of the Lutheran Brotherhood from 1917 to 1967 but can find no images or references to this piece. This organization was a fortune 500 company and as the name implys a close knit network of colleagues; I have a feeling this plate may actually be karat gold. It's probably not but from reading of the wealth of the members I think it's in the realm of possibility.

I have been trying to get you to understand what you are doing, and to understand myself why you are doing it.
You start off by not giving a proper description and then continue doing strange things considering the situation.

A small recap of the previous.
Please read it and point to where I have been nothing but accommodating.

Regarding your precipitate, how about describing what you did properly?
I'm confused, is it from Nitric or from Brine or both?

You:
Sorry about the lack of information; I know better than that. I dry ashed a mixed lot of flat packs and bga's, ran them through a blender dedicated to refining until it was mostly fine dust, which I loaded into a coffee pot that I use for refining . I covered the mass in water and then began adding fuming nitric acid a little bit at a time over the course of a couple of hours until there was no more reaction with addition of nitric.Heat was applied throughout the process along with occasional stirring. The solution was allowed to cool and then was vacuum filtered, yielding the turquoise colored solution shown. I made a concentrated solution of salt+water and added the solution turned cloudy as was left over night. When I checked on it that's what I found.

I'm puzzled, why did you add Brine to the Nitric?
It is a leach used for ores sometimes, but I have never heard about it for this use.
Where did you find this procedure?
Did you make sure all the black stuff was removed first?

You:
No I did not remove all of the black stuff because I could clearly see a lot of gold flakes in the mix and wanted to avoid throwing the baby out with the wash water.
As for the brine question; I just used enough water to dissolve some plain table salt to test the solution to test for the presence of silver nitrate, which I've not only see preformed on you tube but have been advised by senior members of this forum that this is a viable method to check if silver is in solution. I only dissolved the salt in water so as not to have granules of salt mixed in with my precipitate.
I decanted the nitric solution off the precipitate so as to get a better picture and then poured the solution back over it to prevent the possibility of any of it becoming airborne and make anybody extremely sick if it just so happened to be palladium.

Why did you not research properly first?

The black stuff is Carbon and it loves to hold on to Gold, your incineration was not finished if there was black left.
Incineration is done to completely burn off all the Carbon so your Gold do not bind up.
When the leaching is finished one might test for Silver, for IC's, flat packs and such I would not bother.
If you add Brine you might get into a situation that will also dissolve the Gold, a leach called SSN SaturatedSalineNitric.
Please do not stray off until you understand what you do.

You:
I understand that the black stuff is carbon as I have studied for years and am proficient in organic chemistry. I not only used a propane torch to incinerate, but put into a small DIY furnace in a cast iron skillet and the chips in it looked white when the coals had burned out. Upon blending and adding liquid (water and then nitric)it turned back to black looking. I'm assuming the insides where not completely incinerated, but after the amount of time it was subjected to torching and in my homemade furnace I'm assuming it's the inadequacy of my furnace and not a lack of studying.
Doing this properly usually will mean pyrolizing first and then Incineration until completely white. Then it is crushed and milled before gravity separation and final incineration of the powder.
The solution I added the brine to was waste solution. It had already been filtered off the material being refined and I seen no harm in doing so as it was about to be neutralized and disposed of. I added it to test for silver out of curiosity as I have read that some bga's have silver at the point of contact.
Hence my comment about it being waste anyway.
I will hold off on refining anymore chips until I have a furnace hit enough to ensure complete incineration. I appreciate this forum greatly and the time you veteran members take to explain stuff to newbees like myself. I though take the safety of my family and others into consideration when I approach any endeavor as it is extremely selfish not to.
By the lack of an answer regarding the tannish precipitate from anyone leads me to believe no one is sure and that is fine as I myself am not sure and the only way I could be short of sending it off to be assayed would be to find the composition of all the types of chips I refined and looking at what reactions would've taken place and that's a little to much work to be worthwhile as In sure it's nothing if value. As I said in the reply, probably an Iron salt.

Some comments inside the last quote in Bold to emphasize things.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I get the very distinct feeling you're just trying to be difficult with me and for what reason I do not know. I feel that I've been nothing but respectful to any member that I've had the pleasure of conversation with and try to show genuine gratitude for all that you more experienced members do for the refining community.

I'm very confident that my initial description was not lacking and I only reiterated it further since and quite patiently I might add as I feel you've been getting testier and testier with each reply. Perhaps maybe it was your inability to comprehend said description? I clearly state that I added "brine" to nitric I decanted off a mixed batch of chips I had been refining and found a unknown precipitate and was wondering if anyone knew what it was.

You did not know what it was and that is fine but to go on and on and all but blatantly insult my intelligence and the efforts I put forth really isn't called for in my opinion. I see you threaten to ban people for getting an attitude with senior members, which if that becomes the case here no warning is necessary please remove my privileges to be a member of this forum without further ado and we'll all move on with our lives. If you do not ban me I'd not only appreciate but expect the same respect I afford to you and everyone else I encounter. I envy your knowledge on this subject matter and am here to learn and hopefully someday pass along the things I've learned.


Now that Ive gotten that off my chest.....does anyone know if this platter is silver plated or sterling? It's quite worn and I can just barley make out Oneida Silversmiths on the back side. I've done quite a bit of reading on the company and to my understanding they did plate silver dishware in their beginning but moved on to solid sterling in later years and that the stainless they used was magnetic which this platter is not in the slightest magnetic. In addition I have this small plate commemorating the Golden Anniversary of the Lutheran Brotherhood from 1917 to 1967 but can find no images or references to this piece. This organization was a fortune 500 company and as the name implys a close knit network of colleagues; I have a feeling this plate may actually be karat gold. It's probably not but from reading of the wealth of the members I think it's in the realm of possibility.

As you see in my previous reply I disagree with you.
I have not been hard on you, I have actually been quite patient.
Since I'm quite human, my patience gets thinner as it is stretched so my tone might have changed,
even though when re reading the thread nothing indicate so.

And this is interesting to see, I guess you have references for this and disagree with the warnings?

I see you threaten to ban people for getting an attitude with senior members, which if that becomes the case here no warning is necessary please remove my privileges to be a member of this forum without further ado and we'll all move on with our lives. If you do not ban me I'd not only appreciate but expect the same respect I afford to you and everyone else I encounter. I envy your knowledge on this subject matter and am here to learn and hopefully someday pass along the things I've learned.

We do have rules on this forum you know.

You did not know what it was and that is fine but to go on and on and all but blatantly insult my intelligence and the efforts I put forth really isn't called for in my opinion.

And the this one is funny, since my remote brain reading module apparently don't work properly.
Seriously man, how are we going to help you guys when you don't have the time or take the effort to explain the problem in sufficient detail.
We DO NOT read brainwaves, we NEED a proper detailed description of the issue at hand AND the material and how it has been treated.
In detail, pictures help but are not important, detail description is vital.

End of tirade.

 

[wisco_gold]

I laid out for you EXACTLY what I did, I can not describe it anymore clearly. I was checking for silver nitrate with a sodium chloride solution, then I observed precipitate the next morning that I had never seen before. I explained where the solution came from that I was testing. What was not clear?


It doesn't matter though, plenty of other resources of information out there. I really wonder what this sites retention rate is? I'm guessing it's not that high.

 

[eaglekeeper]

.does anyone know if this platter is silver plated or sterling?

If the one is sterling/925...etc, it would generally be stamped that on the bottom.

As far as the other one being alloyed PM's?... It maybe just the picture, but the tone and finish on it doesn't indicate to me that's alloyed PM's. Use some test solution and do a stannous test, you'll have your answer.