any one see this before

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steyr223

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
930
Location
Fullerton ,California. usa
Au cell,3 qts of new sulfuric acid,new stainless
Pot, car battery now in place with charger connected on trickle charge (2amp)

Material 155 pins (1" x ¼") and some gold backed
Telecom boards

The pic is my filter from my rinse bucket, usually
This is black and always a good amount of gild

I dissolved in hcl/bleach then filtered with charmin plug
Very little left in plug,when dropped no gold was
there which I already new as stannous gave no results
I am more curious what is in my filter than
Why it's not gold
Thanks Steyr223 rob
 

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the charger makes no difference if you have a battery hooked to your cell. almost any 12v battery will have more amps than needed heating the electrolyte quickly and stripping base metal. if you can imagine current as water and a battery as a tank, charging a battery is like pressurizing the tank with water. a battery is not regulated, if it has 600 cold cranking amps, its putting 600 amps into your cell. if theres enough resistance, it can boil the acid in minutes.
 
Thanks Geo
I only have the charger hooked up because its
A crappy battery
I must of got lucky I have done all of my deplating
Except for maybe 20 of my chips at the start

For this post I did a few at a time I actually already
Melted a small (½ gram) nugget and it was not contaminated
And filtered fine
I will not do it this way any more
It seems by how many pieces I can do at a time and how
long it takes that I was just above 3 or 4 amps
My PC power supply had almost the same limits

Do you believe it is a metal sulfate, I thought those came after
AuCl
thanks rob
 
ferrous sulfate or Iron(II) sulfate is formed by dissolving iron in sulfuric acid.Nickel(II) sulfate is produced by dissolution of nickel metal or nickel oxides in sulfuric acid.Copper sulfate is produced by treating copper metal with hot concentrated sulfuric acid or its oxides with dilute sulfuric acid.

sulfates are easily formed when using the stripping cell. thats why the perimeters have to be within a certain range, like concentration of the acid as well as volts and amps and temperature of the electrolyte.
 
Geo said:
the charger makes no difference if you have a battery hooked to your cell. almost any 12v battery will have more amps than needed heating the electrolyte quickly and stripping base metal. if you can imagine current as water and a battery as a tank, charging a battery is like pressurizing the tank with water. a battery is not regulated, if it has 600 cold cranking amps, its putting 600 amps into your cell. if theres enough resistance, it can boil the acid in minutes.

You are only going to use the amperage(power) that is required to deplate any given item. And this varies by the surface area of the item you are trying to deplate. Or if you are trying to deplated a very large item the amperage(power) used will be limited by the surface area of your cathode. When using a battery your voltage will stay constant but your amperage will fluxtuate. If a 600 AMP battery tried to dump its whole load while trying to deplate an item the wire you would be using to conduct the flow of elctricity to the item you are trying to deplate would becoe hot, then start burning the insulation and then start glowing till it burnt out from the load on the wire.
 
Barren Realms 007 said:
Geo said:
the charger makes no difference if you have a battery hooked to your cell. almost any 12v battery will have more amps than needed heating the electrolyte quickly and stripping base metal. if you can imagine current as water and a battery as a tank, charging a battery is like pressurizing the tank with water. a battery is not regulated, if it has 600 cold cranking amps, its putting 600 amps into your cell. if theres enough resistance, it can boil the acid in minutes.

You are only going to use the amperage(power) that is required to deplate any given item. And this varies by the surface area of the item you are trying to deplate. Or if you are trying to deplated a very large item the amperage(power) used will be limited by the surface area of your cathode. When using a battery your voltage will stay constant but your amperage will fluxtuate. If a 600 AMP battery tried to dump its whole load while trying to deplate an item the wire you would be using to conduct the flow of elctricity to the item you are trying to deplate would becoe hot, then start burning the insulation and then start glowing till it burnt out from the load on the wire.


exactly. thats what i meant when i said "if there's enough resistance,it can boil the acid in minutes". if it was a dead short, it would cook the wire. i tried a 12v utility battery on my first cell and found i couldnt use an anode basket.one pin at a time was pretty violent but the basket deteriorated and the bottom fell out after a few minutes.
 
The cell will have resistance naturally in the electrolyte, unless the anode and cathode are touching, or shorted, then there would be little or no resistance, a battery can be used with or without the charger, but I would look at using a current limiter, or better yet a regulator, or at least a fuse.

The car battery will supply enough power to weld steel with,
(I have used car batteries for welding steel with, using jumper cables and fence wire when out in the mountains).
The battery can supply way too much current for your circuit if with if something does not limit the current (the cells resistance would normally limit current somewhat), depending on the conditions of the cell, but if cell shorts it will not limit any current), and if the electrolyte was saturated with metals the current would raise temperature of the cell.

Resistance slows current (slows down amperage).
A short has very little or no resistance to current, in which case it would only be limited by available current of the power supply (or until something burned in two, breaking or killing power through the circuit).

In the cell a 10 amp battery charger can supply over 10 amps, an internal circuit breaker on the charger would trip if it delivered over 10 amps for long enough for the circuit breaker to heat up, cheaper style battery chargers or power supply’s may not have circuit breakers and the transformer size would limit the available current, the cell normally would not pull this kind of amperage, unless shorted, or some other problem, although it will pull more amperage with gold coming off of material in solution lowering the resistance of the electrolyte as it is saturating with metal (or if the cell was dilute and saturating with base metals), as the gold is de-plated in the concentrated sulfuric acid the cells resistance would raise as the metal would be less in solution, and so the current drawn from the power supply would also lower, as the electrolyte, became more resistive to current flow (again unless the cell solution was dilute and saturating with base metals).

A fuse can be used to protect the power supply or battery from an accidental short (or over-current draw condition) the fuse can be chosen for the maximum current, these can blow and would need replaced, a circuit breaker can be used instead, electronic components very often have circuit breakers, some with automatic or manual resets, so you probably have these in your scrap or junk bin, the fuse or circuit breaker would not regulate current, only blow or trip if more current than the rating was drawn from the power source by the cells lack of resistance.

Resistors can be used to limit current (to whatever range you wish), to figure the ohms of the resistor divide the Amps into the voltage to get resistance, then to get the wattage of the resistor needed, multiply voltage times the amperage to get the watts needed, double the wattage size of the resistor used so it will run cool.
(For these cells your resistor would be the big power resistors wire wound ceramic type, not the little ones in your circuit boards), you can also make your own resistors if needed, like using nichrome heater wire on a ceramic tube, you can even make it into a variable resistor if you wished.

The problem with using resistors is they burn up current as heat, wasting power as wattage (and your cell could make a heater out of your resistor) the less resistance the cell had (closer to a short), the more current would flow through the resistor, the more of a heater it would become.

A current regulator circuit can be built with a little bit of study in electronics, or if you have a basic understanding, but with the higher current this is not always practical.


A light bulb makes a great current limiter (wattage divided by the voltage equals current), the lamp also acts as an indicator to visually see the current draw of your cell, it will protect the power supply and circuit from shorts, and can make a great current regulator, the lamps filament acts as a variable resistor depending on current through the filament.

If you do not have a protection for your circuit and for the power supply you should add one,(Your battery charger which usually has one built in (circuit breaker) and also normally the available current is limited by what the transformer size or tap will allow, the voltage in a lead acid battery charger is fixed at about 14.5 volts direct current , the transformer is usually tapped for about 2 amp maximum and 10 amps depending on charger, some also use larger transformers and have a 50amp tap).

A battery should not be used (unless the battery is incapable of delivering more current than your circuit can handle), or you regulate the current which can be drawn from it, and or protect your circuit, if it wishes to draw more current than the circuit will handle safely. If you are unsure do not take chances.
 
Once again the advice points to a better mousetrap and I have two Vari acs and have to bypass the auto on a charger, with corret info from GRF I now know I'll have few grams to work with, a cell , few fingers , some chips and pins from cannon plugs . Not sure on cooling , had an idea of the frezzer packs from packages that are packed to keep chilled. Thanks again for the details and tips on better ways and doing things safe,..
 

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thank you Butcher for the clarification. for the life of me i cant understand why i type this stuff out in reverse. makes me look like an imbecile.i do understand resistance and dont know why i didnt type it out right not once but twice. you all will have to look over me cause you cant look under me.

my dad used to say "if i tell you a roach can pull a freight train, dont ask how, just hook it up." :lol:
 
Geo, I understand exactly what your saying, I very often say things backwards, or different than I know they are, many times I have to re-read what I type to make sure I said it right.

I figured you understood it, and just said it back-ards, I just wanted to try and clarify it for those learning to avoid some confusion if possible.
 
butcher said:
Geo, I understand exactly what your saying, I very often say things backwards, or different than I know they are, many times I have to re-read what I type to make sure I said it right.

I figured you understood it, and just said it back-ards, I just wanted to try and clarify it for those learning to avoid some confusion if possible.

It's called getting old, though i dont do it, ......yet!! :mrgreen:
 
NoIdea said:
butcher said:
Geo, I understand exactly what your saying, I very often say things backwards, or different than I know they are, many times I have to re-read what I type to make sure I said it right.

I figured you understood it, and just said it back-ards, I just wanted to try and clarify it for those learning to avoid some confusion if possible.

It's called getting old, though i dont do it, ......yet!! :mrgreen:

thanks Deano, i knew there must be a medical reason for it. :p
 

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