Im currently running a batch of cpus through poormans AR about 2.2 pound ive tried adding nitric in smaller additions for each addition but im now at about 2 and a half teaspoons of it and I can still see gold quiet a bit of gold in the solution, keep adding? or just stop. the glass is very hot.
AR emergency
- Thread starter Moo
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jeneje
Well-known member
I think i would stop and wait to hear from one of the senior members who knows.
Ken
Ken
philddreamer
Well-known member
Moo, don't add any more until some Q's are answered, like, 2.2 pounds of what type of cpu's?
How much HCl did you start with? Did you add anything else besides HCl/nitrate, like peroxide? what type of nitrate?
Are you applying heat or is it just getting hot by the reaction itself? If you have it on a hotplate, control the heat so it doesn't boil. As long as it dosen't boil you're okay, provided you are using a proper vessel.
Phil
How much HCl did you start with? Did you add anything else besides HCl/nitrate, like peroxide? what type of nitrate?
Are you applying heat or is it just getting hot by the reaction itself? If you have it on a hotplate, control the heat so it doesn't boil. As long as it dosen't boil you're okay, provided you are using a proper vessel.
Phil
Thanks for the fast responses guys I switched off.
Ok I started as per sams instructions and used about 9 pentium pros 3 amd k5s and 1 486 and a 386.
I calculated what I should add and used 200mls of 37% HCL and added 50 mils of water to it. water had been boiled and cooled prior to adding I heated the solution and once it started to omit gentle bubbles I added about a half teaspoon of sodium nitrate lab grade.
the reaction caused significant heat increase and started within 30 secs of adding I kept switching heat off and on the whole time so the solution only simmered, the 2nd increment was about a quarter a teaspoon and the next a little less, still having base metals and gold visible ive I added about another half spoon 20 mins later still base so added another addition Im guessing im up to about 2.5 teaspoons max, I noticed my sodium nitrate is rather lumpy. Sorry cannot get camera out from room to take pics as its a usb webcam. Vessel is an erlenmeyer flask
Ok I started as per sams instructions and used about 9 pentium pros 3 amd k5s and 1 486 and a 386.
I calculated what I should add and used 200mls of 37% HCL and added 50 mils of water to it. water had been boiled and cooled prior to adding I heated the solution and once it started to omit gentle bubbles I added about a half teaspoon of sodium nitrate lab grade.
the reaction caused significant heat increase and started within 30 secs of adding I kept switching heat off and on the whole time so the solution only simmered, the 2nd increment was about a quarter a teaspoon and the next a little less, still having base metals and gold visible ive I added about another half spoon 20 mins later still base so added another addition Im guessing im up to about 2.5 teaspoons max, I noticed my sodium nitrate is rather lumpy. Sorry cannot get camera out from room to take pics as its a usb webcam. Vessel is an erlenmeyer flask
philddreamer
Well-known member
I'm afraid you'll end up having to add much more nitrate. The P-Pro's, as any other CERAMIC lid cpu's should be processed separate from the i386, i486 and other ceramic cpu's.
The ceramic lid has a lot of copper and it will require a lot of oxidizer. If I remember correctly Sam & Steve recommend running thru nitric first in order to get rid of the ceramic lid or lift the gold foil off, then proced with AR or P-AR.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12845&hilit=merged&start=220#p128293
Phil
The ceramic lid has a lot of copper and it will require a lot of oxidizer. If I remember correctly Sam & Steve recommend running thru nitric first in order to get rid of the ceramic lid or lift the gold foil off, then proced with AR or P-AR.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12845&hilit=merged&start=220#p128293
Phil
philddreamer
Well-known member
Ceramic cpu's come with a gold plated lid or a ceramic plated lid. And then there are some with both, like some Intel Pentium's.
You remove the metal gold lids before processing, and on the ceramic lids ones you should do the same. The ceramic lids are harder to remove, so that's why they run thru nitric first to help removing them or lift the gold foil. If the ceramic lids are still on, I would process them separate from the metal lid ones.
Phil
You remove the metal gold lids before processing, and on the ceramic lids ones you should do the same. The ceramic lids are harder to remove, so that's why they run thru nitric first to help removing them or lift the gold foil. If the ceramic lids are still on, I would process them separate from the metal lid ones.
Phil
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philddreamer
Well-known member
If the foils from the P-Pro's haven't lifted off yet... I would. I would process 9 P-Pro's separate from the others. (If it was a couple, I would leave them).
If you pull them out, rinse them thoroughly. Incinerate so to get rid of HCl. Read the topic above, MERGED TOPICS..., so to use a more proper method for processing them.
Phil
If you pull them out, rinse them thoroughly. Incinerate so to get rid of HCl. Read the topic above, MERGED TOPICS..., so to use a more proper method for processing them.
Phil
samuel-a
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Hello Moo
You mentioned using 200ml of 37% HCl, while that's in the range of what i have suggested in my article, it seems you chose the very low end possible of this range.
I would strongly recommand you to add 100-150 ml more HCl.
The gold is not going anywhere. Stay cool and be patient. This is a key ingredient in any recovery/refining process 8)
After adding the fresh HCl, warm up the solution again to 80-90C and wait about 20-30 minutes and watch for any reaction. I suspect there won't be any at this point, but if there is, just let it do its job. Then keep on the addition of nitrates as usual until you no longer see any metals and gold foils.
I have found it to be useful to dissolve the sodium / potassium nitrate in little hot water before adding it to the reaction. Again, add slowly, drop wise even.
ALTERNATIVELY
If your solution is currently tested negative for gold, which it should be assuming you are still seeing base metals and get no reaction, you can simply decant the current solution as much as possible without decanting any gold powder or foils. Refill with HCl and start over.
------------------------------------
Phil my dear friend, in my opinion ans experience, it could be either way.
The top heat spreaders are in most cases made of a sintered tungsten copper "alloy", usually 70/30 W/Cu.
The high tungsten content produces on the surface a thin protective oxide coating which prevents further attack, therefore does not hinder the reaction.
I guess maybe minute amounts of copper will be leached out and there will be some degradation of the yellow oxide layer, but i doubt it will be to any extant where it do any harm.
I would however do PP's seperatly, mainly to determine yields.
edit: clarification
You mentioned using 200ml of 37% HCl, while that's in the range of what i have suggested in my article, it seems you chose the very low end possible of this range.
I would strongly recommand you to add 100-150 ml more HCl.
The gold is not going anywhere. Stay cool and be patient. This is a key ingredient in any recovery/refining process 8)
After adding the fresh HCl, warm up the solution again to 80-90C and wait about 20-30 minutes and watch for any reaction. I suspect there won't be any at this point, but if there is, just let it do its job. Then keep on the addition of nitrates as usual until you no longer see any metals and gold foils.
I have found it to be useful to dissolve the sodium / potassium nitrate in little hot water before adding it to the reaction. Again, add slowly, drop wise even.
ALTERNATIVELY
If your solution is currently tested negative for gold, which it should be assuming you are still seeing base metals and get no reaction, you can simply decant the current solution as much as possible without decanting any gold powder or foils. Refill with HCl and start over.
------------------------------------
Phil my dear friend, in my opinion ans experience, it could be either way.
The top heat spreaders are in most cases made of a sintered tungsten copper "alloy", usually 70/30 W/Cu.
The high tungsten content produces on the surface a thin protective oxide coating which prevents further attack, therefore does not hinder the reaction.
I guess maybe minute amounts of copper will be leached out and there will be some degradation of the yellow oxide layer, but i doubt it will be to any extant where it do any harm.
I would however do PP's seperatly, mainly to determine yields.
edit: clarification
Here's an write up from October 2008 on processing ceramic cpus without the kovar bottom lids:
Poorman's AR for CPUs
You should also read the entire thread that Phil cited. Many times information that first appears on the forum is re-written (or videoed) elsewhere on the web and something is inadvertently lost in translation. It only natural for each individual to apply his or her own changes to a given process and this in turn leads to problems if you do not follow the changed method exactly as in the changed instructions.
If you want to easily separate the silver from the cpus, it's wise to start with dilute nitric acid as discussed in the cited thread after the above article was written.
Steve
Poorman's AR for CPUs
You should also read the entire thread that Phil cited. Many times information that first appears on the forum is re-written (or videoed) elsewhere on the web and something is inadvertently lost in translation. It only natural for each individual to apply his or her own changes to a given process and this in turn leads to problems if you do not follow the changed method exactly as in the changed instructions.
If you want to easily separate the silver from the cpus, it's wise to start with dilute nitric acid as discussed in the cited thread after the above article was written.
Steve
philddreamer
Well-known member
Sam, because I don't have the extent of expirience that you and other members here have with these types, I continued to add nitric in order to dissolve the ceramic, thus spending nitric & time spinning my wheels... :roll: It just clicked & now I get it!
Anyway, now that I'm accumulating more of this type material, I can process the ceramic lid cpu's separate from the other metal lid ones.
Always thankful,
Phil
philddreamer
Well-known member
Thank you, Bro! 8)
Geo
Well-known member
before you do anything else, check the solution you have now for the presence of gold with stannous chloride. if theres no gold in solution, you can decant carefully and start with new solution. you may get a cleaner solution if you do. if there is gold in the solution and you dont want to start with new solution, add more hcl and dissolve more gold with the same solution.
Thanks Geo all done, Stannous positive went black. How much more gold do you suggest adding? Im assuming I can add some gold in form of kovar legs regardless that the gold that was there is already dissolved because it will all redissolve if it intially cements out from it correct?
