Ar process for placer gold

[Roy]

hello again, I'm still reading hoke's book i just got to the fumes and ventilation part.

but I've been having a question how do I get the gold from the AR solution if it dissolves it? is it like what steve shows on his vid the separating gold from silver it'll leave a powder at the bottom of the beaker or is there something else that needs to be done?

I hope this made sense my brain is shutting off lol

 

[nickvc]

Roy there are numerous ways to precipitate the gold out of AR, keep reading and use the search function on the forum to find one that suits you,i hesitate to give you further advice as everyone has their own preferences,follow Harold Vs advice if he gives you any,his methods work and are easy to follow and understand and will give you high purity gold every time.

 

[butcher]

when we dissolve a metal in an acid the metal gives up electrons on the atomic level, the metal is still in this solution, when we give back these electrons the metal it will precipitate back out of solution as a metal.
lets look at gold with its place on the reactivity series (if you dont have Idea about reactivity series, do a search for it on web get a chart for your refining notes), gold is at the bottom of the series, a very unreactive metal,it will not dissolve in nitric acid, it will not dissolve in hydrochloric acid, but in a combination of the two of these acids it will dissolve, the nitric oxidize's the gold and then it will become a metal salt with the chloride from the hydrochloric acid, giving up its electrons, this is now yellow dissolved salt of gold chloride, the nitric in solution will keep it dissolved, untill it is eliminated (or used up), now to get our gold back how can we do this? well one way, we could just replace the gold from solution, look at the reactivity series, and the position of copper in the series compared to gold, copper is above gold meaning it is more reactive, so by adding copper to this acidic salt of gold in solution, the copper will start dissolving giving up its electrons to the acid and if we had excess acid it would not start precipitating the gold untill all of the unreacted acid was used up, then the copper would continue giveing up its electrons but now to the dissolved gold in solution, now since the gold gets back its electrons it will form back into a metal (brown powder) and precipitate out of solution, once all of the gold has precipitated and the solution is loaded the copper bar will not dissolve any further (nothing left to take its electrons)now with dissolved copper salts in solution, all these copper atoms are missing their electrons, a metal higher in series can replace the copper from solution, and so on.
another method to get the gold from aqua regia would be to eliminate the nitric acid ( 3 boil, Hcl additions method ) and the use a chemical to precipitate the gold, here is an equation using sodium bisulfite (notice the ITE in the name NOT ATE), this is a chemical reaction with the gold chloride, not a replacement reaction like the example above.
2HAuCl4 + 2NaHSO3 --> 2Au + 4HCl + NaSO4 + SO2
the sulfur dioxide gas after the arrow gave back the gold its missing electrons, precipitating the gold.

now to get the gold pure if other metals are involve is another story.
and with yer nose in hokes book yer on the right track good work roy. hope this helps.

 

[Roy]

when we dissolve a metal in an acid the metal gives up electrons on the atomic level, the metal is still in this solution, when we give back these electrons the metal it will precipitate back out of solution as a metal.
lets look at gold with its place on the reactivity series (if you dont have Idea about reactivity series, do a search for it on web get a chart for your refining notes), gold is at the bottom of the series, a very unreactive metal,it will not dissolve in nitric acid, it will not dissolve in hydrochloric acid, but in a combination of the two of these acids it will dissolve, the nitric oxidize's the gold and then it will become a metal salt with the chloride from the hydrochloric acid, giving up its electrons, this is now yellow dissolved salt of gold chloride, the nitric in solution will keep it dissolved, untill it is eliminated (or used up), now to get our gold back how can we do this? well one way, we could just replace the gold from solution, look at the reactivity series, and the position of copper in the series compared to gold, copper is above gold meaning it is more reactive, so by adding copper to this acidic salt of gold in solution, the copper will start dissolving giving up its electrons to the acid and if we had excess acid it would not start precipitating the gold untill all of the unreacted acid was used up, then the copper would continue giveing up its electrons but now to the dissolved gold in solution, now since the gold gets back its electrons it will form back into a metal (brown powder) and precipitate out of solution, once all of the gold has precipitated and the solution is loaded the copper bar will not dissolve any further (nothing left to take its electrons)now with dissolved copper salts in solution, all these copper atoms are missing their electrons, a metal higher in series can replace the copper from solution, and so on.
another method to get the gold from aqua regia would be to eliminate the nitric acid ( 3 boil, Hcl additions method ) and the use a chemical to precipitate the gold, here is an equation using sodium bisulfite (notice the ITE in the name NOT ATE), this is a chemical reaction with the gold chloride, not a replacement reaction like the example above.
2HAuCl4 + 2NaHSO3 --> 2Au + 4HCl + NaSO4 + SO2
the sulfur dioxide gas after the arrow gave back the gold its missing electrons, precipitating the gold.

now to get the gold pure if other metals are involve is another story.
and with yer nose in hokes book yer on the right track good work roy. hope this helps.

It does kinda. I dunno for some reason to me it sounds like you use the AR it dissolve the gold and impurities and then use enough copper to replace the gold until the copper bars will no longer dissolve for one part. the other method you mention is boil the nitric acid out of the AR by using bisulfite and by boil (I'm assuming use a Bunsen burner to bring the acid to a boil?) If i just made things worse it's cause It's a little difficult for me to understand by reading things. If I was to see the process done from start to finish then I could get it down better. guess that's the downside with mental disorders it's harder to teach someone. But I won't give up I'll keep reading Hoke's book it might take me a few reads it get it down since my brain is picking things apart and all.

 

[butcher]

keep reading when you first start learning it is all fuzzy, you will read something and not understand it, this is a new language, it takes time, then you will read more and a light will come on, and you will see clearly, soon you will be speaking this new language.

in the examples above the acids dissolve the gold metal, gold loosing its electrons, becoming a yellow liquid.
copper was a replacement reaction, giving gold back the electrons, making gold precipitate, but loosing its own.
the second one was a chemical reaction, used to precipitate the gold.

I don't think you have a mental disorder, you seem smarter than most, Heck You are reading Hokes book, instead of just jumping in head first, we all learn at our own pace and sometime's when someone says it in a different way we understand it.

 

[Roy]

keep reading when you first start learning it is all fuzzy, you will read something and not understand it, this is a new language, it takes time, then you will read more and a light will come on, and you will see clearly, soon you will be speaking this new language.

in the examples above the acids dissolve the gold metal, gold loosing its electrons, becoming a yellow liquid.
copper was a replacement reaction, giving gold back the electrons, making gold precipitate, but loosing its own.
the second one was a chemical reaction, used to precipitate the gold.

I don't think you have a mental disorder, you seem smarter than most, Heck You are reading Hokes book, instead of just jumping in head first, we all learn at our own pace and sometime's when someone says it in a different way we understand it.

Ohh believe me I was about to just jump in head first and start melting the gold I'd be panning and stuff, lol but seeing everything I see here I found out that panning and melting the gold isn't the whole process LOL.

ya I've worked hard to over come some of my mental disorder and use it in away that would allow me to see both sides of the fence so to speak. that in it self gets me in trouble lol.

 

[philddreamer]

This forum is one of the best thing I have found.
I've been prospecting for over 25 years & I've read & heard so many ways how to recover gold from black sands, how to purify it & so on. Must of it flat out nonsense. To the point that, I bought high grade HCI & nitric 18 yrs. ago & never was able to use them because of not enough info. I read that if done wrong, my sand & gold would stick like concrete on the bottom of the beaker. The hazards of working with these acids.
Since I came across this forum & met the experts, read their stories & learned the do's & don't, I've been able to refine my PM's. And I continue to learn the science of refining. :lol:

philddreamer

 

[Harold_V]

This forum is one of the best thing I have found.
I've been prospecting for over 25 years & I've read & heard so many ways how to recover gold from black sands, how to purify it & so on. Must of it flat out nonsense. To the point that, I bought high grade HCI & nitric 18 yrs. ago & never was able to use them because of not enough info. I read that if done wrong, my sand & gold would stick like concrete on the bottom of the beaker. The hazards of working with these acids.

I refined for a little more than 20 years, prior to retiring. I can honestly say that the vast majority of people you will encounter that offer information concerning the refining of precious metals are nothing short of complete morons. My experience with these people is that they tend to disregard factual information and cling to notions that border on the ridiculous. Precious few people have a true understanding of the process, although they are not quick to admit their lack of knowledge.

You are well served to pay attention to the few individuals on this forum that offer years of experience. The precious metal world is one of the most guarded of secrets, due in part to the lack of complexity of the refining process. I have often stated that I could teach a monkey to refine----it's that simple. Doing it right, however, requires that one use common sense and pay attention to detail. I always advise that one follow practices that are known to work, at least until the basic principles are well understood.

Harold

 

[philddreamer]

Well said Mr. Harold, well said!

Thank you!

philddreamer