Assaying Karat GOLD 8K > 18K and FINE GOLD

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Barren Realms 007 said:
Evaporate the water and testthe remians.
Click to expand...

Actually the idea of diluting more is what keeps hitting on me. I don't know why. :roll:

If they threw me in jail and only let me out if I paid in gold, I'd actually, at this point in time, choose mercury neutron bombardment, over claiming gold from seawater... One has been done successfully at high cost, the other, if anyone solved the problem, he is keeping it very quiet.

From wikipedia:

Gold synthesis from Mercury
Gold obtained by mining has copper and silver impurities. Gold of higher purity can be made through the photoneutron process:

Mercury 198 + 6.8MeV gamma ray 1 neutron + Mercury 197 (half-life 2.7 days Gold 197 + 1 positron)
These energy levels allow a more efficient neutron source than the Spallation Neutron Source.

[edit] Gold synthesis in an accelerator
Gold synthesis in a particle accelerator is possible in many ways. The Spallation Neutron Source has a liquid Mercury target that will be transmuted into Gold, Platinum, and Iridium, which are lower in atomic number.

[edit] Gold synthesis in a nuclear reactor
Gold was first synthesized from mercury by neutron bombardment in 1941, but the isotopes of gold produced were all radioactive[3].

Gold can currently be manufactured in a nuclear reactor by irradiation either of platinum or mercury. Since platinum is more expensive than gold, platinum is economically unsuitable as a raw material. Only the mercury isotope 196Hg, which occurs with a frequency of 0.15% in natural mercury, can be converted to gold by neutron capture, and following electron capture-decay into 197Au with slow neutrons
 
HAuCl4 said:
Barren Realms 007 said:
Evaporate the water and testthe remians.
Click to expand...

Actually the idea of diluting more is what keeps hitting on me. I don't know why. :roll:

If they threw me in jail and only let me out if I paid in gold, I'd actually, at this point in time, choose mercury neutron bombardment, over claiming gold from seawater... One has been done successfully at high cost, the other, if anyone solved the problem, he is keeping it very quiet.

From wikipedia:

Gold synthesis from Mercury
Gold obtained by mining has copper and silver impurities. Gold of higher purity can be made through the photoneutron process:

Mercury 198 + 6.8MeV gamma ray 1 neutron + Mercury 197 (half-life 2.7 days Gold 197 + 1 positron)
These energy levels allow a more efficient neutron source than the Spallation Neutron Source.

[edit] Gold synthesis in an accelerator
Gold synthesis in a particle accelerator is possible in many ways. The Spallation Neutron Source has a liquid Mercury target that will be transmuted into Gold, Platinum, and Iridium, which are lower in atomic number.

[edit] Gold synthesis in a nuclear reactor
Gold was first synthesized from mercury by neutron bombardment in 1941, but the isotopes of gold produced were all radioactive[3].

Gold can currently be manufactured in a nuclear reactor by irradiation either of platinum or mercury. Since platinum is more expensive than gold, platinum is economically unsuitable as a raw material. Only the mercury isotope 196Hg, which occurs with a frequency of 0.15% in natural mercury, can be converted to gold by neutron capture, and following electron capture-decay into 197Au with slow neutrons
Click to expand...

Am I understanding you right that they can change the molecular structure of mercury to become gold just by irradiation bombardment?
 
If one owned a large nuclear reactor, they might be able to produce a gram a year. We need a Pie-In-The-Sky or If-Pigs-Could-Fly category.
 
masarh said:
i am writing this procedure as i was told but i need some explanation [if any]

ASSAYING KARAT GOLD
1.drill sample from bullion,
2.make three sub-sample of gold 0.25000 gramin in weight
3.add 0.32000gram pure silver
4.foil in lead
5.put in cupell, and cupell in furnance at 960grade Celcius which forms a button contaning only Gold and Silver
6.roll the button to for a sheet,
6.boil with nitric acid in 32 baume 1 time for 20minutes
7.boil with nitric acid in 49 baume 2 times for 20minutes
8.wash with distilled water, and let dry
9.measure the left over of the gold and divide /primary sample
[for example leftover=0.15203 divide by 0.25000 =0.608‰

that means 608/1000 pureness


ASSAYING FINE GOLD
1.drill sample from bullion,
2.make three sub-sample of gold 0.25000 gramin in weight
3.add 0.45000gram pure silver and 0.05000gram Copper
4.foil in lead
5.put in cupell, and cupell in furnance at 960grade Celcius which forms a button contaning only Gold and Silver
6.roll the button to for a sheet,
6.boil with nitric acid in 32 baume 1 time for 20minutes
7.boil with nitric acid in 49 baume 3 times for 20minutes
8.wash with distilled water, and let dry
9.measure the left over of the gold and divide /primary sample
[for example leftover=0.24239 divide by 0.25000 =0.96956‰

that means 969/1000 pureness

why is that i use for assay of karat gold 0.25gram Gold and 0.32gr silver
while for FINE GOLD 0.25gram gold + 0.32 silver + 0.05 Copper
Click to expand...

I try your procedure about fine gold but its not work i don't know why .
I use 68% nitic . Silver and copper not disolve i boil them 4 time but there isn't any kind of chage they are same. I use fire assay. what could be fault ?

1. 0.075 gold
2. 0.058 silver
3.0.037 copper
For 1st acid ration is 1part water and 1 part nitic acid and for second and third acid i use 68% nitirc .
could you tell me why it's not work ?
waiting for ur reply.
 
You must use more silver. You have too much gold in % in your button. why make such small samples??? :shock:

Re-read the instructions and follow them to the letter is my suggestion.
 
HAuCl4 said:
You must use more silver. You have too much gold in % in your button. why make such small samples??? :shock:

Re-read the instructions and follow them to the letter is my suggestion.
Click to expand...

I always use same ratio in 18 and 22 karat gold but i dont mix copper i use
1) .075 gold
2) .118 to .120 silver
its worked. But when i use same ratio for fine gold there always some diffrene in two sample why is it ?
 
talalstuvs said:
HAuCl4 said:
You must use more silver. You have too much gold in % in your button. why make such small samples??? :shock:

Re-read the instructions and follow them to the letter is my suggestion.
Click to expand...

I always use same ratio in 18 and 22 karat gold but i dont mix copper i use
1) .075 gold
2) .118 to .120 silver
its worked. But when i use same ratio for fine gold there always some diffrene in two sample why is it ?
Click to expand...

You must use more silver. You have too much gold in % in your button. why make such small samples???

Re-read the instructions and follow them to the letter is my suggestion.
 
talalstuvs said:
masarh said:
i am writing this procedure as i was told but i need some explanation [if any]

ASSAYING KARAT GOLD
1.drill sample from bullion,
2.make three sub-sample of gold 0.25000 gramin in weight
3.add 0.32000gram pure silver
4.foil in lead
5.put in cupell, and cupell in furnance at 960grade Celcius which forms a button contaning only Gold and Silver
6.roll the button to for a sheet,
6.boil with nitric acid in 32 baume 1 time for 20minutes
7.boil with nitric acid in 49 baume 2 times for 20minutes
8.wash with distilled water, and let dry
9.measure the left over of the gold and divide /primary sample
[for example leftover=0.15203 divide by 0.25000 =0.608‰

that means 608/1000 pureness


ASSAYING FINE GOLD
1.drill sample from bullion,
2.make three sub-sample of gold 0.25000 gramin in weight
3.add 0.45000gram pure silver and 0.05000gram Copper
4.foil in lead
5.put in cupell, and cupell in furnance at 960grade Celcius which forms a button contaning only Gold and Silver
6.roll the button to for a sheet,
6.boil with nitric acid in 32 baume 1 time for 20minutes
7.boil with nitric acid in 49 baume 3 times for 20minutes
8.wash with distilled water, and let dry
9.measure the left over of the gold and divide /primary sample
[for example leftover=0.24239 divide by 0.25000 =0.96956‰

that means 969/1000 pureness

why is that i use for assay of karat gold 0.25gram Gold and 0.32gr silver
while for FINE GOLD 0.25gram gold + 0.32 silver + 0.05 Copper
Click to expand...

I try your procedure about fine gold but its not work i don't know why .
I use 68% nitic . Silver and copper not disolve i boil them 4 time but there isn't any kind of chage they are same. I use fire assay. what could be fault ?

1. 0.075 gold
2. 0.058 silver
3.0.037 copper
For 1st acid ration is 1part water and 1 part nitic acid and for second and third acid i use 68% nitirc .
could you tell me why it's not work ?
waiting for ur reply.
Click to expand...
The copper is added to the fine gold sample (although, I think 20% Cu is excessive) to assist driving all of the lead into the cupel and to help make the bead easier to roll without cracking. The karat gold already contains copper so it is not necessary to add any.

A ratio of silver to gold should be between 2:1 and 3:1 and the bead should be rolled out to about 0.01" (.004 cm) thick, or less. If the ratio is less than 2:1, silver will most probably be retained in the gold and the results will be high. If greater than 3:1, the gold will tend to break up and there will be a possibility of losing small pieces when pouring off the nitric and the rinses. I prefer at least a 3:1 ratio (actually, I use about 5:1), in order to insure that I have removed all of the silver/copper. However, since my technique precludes the possibility of losses, I can tolerate a higher ratio. Also, with the high ratio (5:1), I don't worry about rolling it thin. I just flatten the bead out with a hammer.

In the instructions above, if you were assaying 18K gold, with a sample of .25g and an addition of .32g of silver, the silver+copper/gold ratio would be 2.04:1, which is border-line. If it were 22K, the ratio would only be 1.48:1, which is way too low. With this ratio, I doubt if any of the silver would dissolve.

If the Ag/Au ratio is too low or, if the ratio is about 2:1 and the gold isn't rolled thin enough, you will get high answers. Also, you will most likely get variations between samples.
 
talalstuvs,

I always use same ratio in 18 and 22 karat gold but i dont mix copper i use
1) .075 gold
2) .118 to .120 silver
its worked. But when i use same ratio for fine gold there always some diffrence in two sample why is it ?
Click to expand...

With 18K, your ratio is 2.4:1. With 22K, it is 1.8:1. With 18K, you might be all right, assuming you rolled the bead thin enough. With 22K, at that ratio, I doubt if you'll ever get a right answer. Have you tried making up combining the right amounts of Au, Cu, and Ag, using those weight and ratio numbers, and assaying it? That should be done, along with the samples, as a matter of course, anyway. I would be interested in the results.

I think the reason you're getting differences in the samples is because (a) not enough silver, (b) the bead is not thin enough, or (c) you're not spending enough time in the acid(s). Possibly, it's all 3

If you only have a 4 place balance, I would use at least a .25g sample. A .50g sample for karat gold is traditional but some people only use .25. I've never heard of anyone using .075g. It's not good practice. Inaccurate assays can be very expensive. Don't cut corners.
 
How much I should preheat furnace for .100 milegram and how much silver
I should use after placing foil in cupel how much I should wait for it melting
waiting for your replay .
 
salam now i am using of .125 sample adding .125*2 silver and 3 part of foil lead .125*3 and i set furnace to 1100c but i am not getting button shap good and as i try to roll it its get break from side wht should i do sir ?
 

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