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JHS,

I've been running a similar thought through my head for some time now and was thinking of simply using a ball valve right below the sink, leaving it open, then a foot of pipe and another ball valve at the bottom of that pipe.

The foils would mostly settle in the pipe. You can close the top valve, open the bottom valve and have your foils concentrated in a small amount of AP.
 
To be honest mike if the catch area was funneled then the gold would settle in there along with any other solids so theoretically would a second ball valve be needed?

I think though that sometimes a metal item such as a copper loop would be present which could stop the ball valve operating so maybe a second safety valve would be a good idea.
 
Actually Mike I'm going to incorporate your second valve in the design we're working on. The more I think about it, the better sense it makes.
 
gold4mike said:
JHS,

I've been running a similar thought through my head for some time now and was thinking of simply using a ball valve right below the sink, leaving it open, then a foot of pipe and another ball valve at the bottom of that pipe.

The foils would mostly settle in the pipe. You can close the top valve, open the bottom valve and have your foils concentrated in a small amount of AP.

This sounds like KISS.
A whole lot easier,not much to lift,nothing much to break down.
I like KISS.For those who don't know KISS,it means, keep it simple stupid.
sometimes,I do try to over think and over complicate things.
this is the best i have heard so far.
thanks mike.
 
Rather than a sink I'll probably use a 55 gallon drum, slightly tilted toward the threaded bung. Cut it so the cut is level and suspend two or three "colanderized" buckets full of fingers in it.

The opening would be large enough to allow boards to be suspended. I have a lot of backplane and wire wrap pin boards I visualize running that way.
 
A 55 gal drum you only need to pump air into. But it's alot of AP and you'd have to drain alot of fluid to get alot of flakes. Forcing you to raise the tank so you can put a bucket under the drain. I'd guess 2-4 5gal buckets to get most of the material out.

Just a pipe under the sink is not much slow moving fluid for settling.
The overflow tank works great. Same as an aquarium filtration works. Everything settles before the overflow but it's a pain to clean out. Syphon would suck alot up but takes alot of fluid and bucket has to be lower then tank.

Remember, height becomes an issue when adding containers on top of each other.

KISS...comical...
Shallow tub for boards with removeable lid.
Big enough to stack boards with spacers between.
A lower tank with slow fluid flow to allow settling. Still high enough to put recovery bucket below everything.
Pipe to pump below surface but not close to bottom.
Filter before pump does not have to filter every little particle. Just stop anything that would cause damage/wear to pump.
Air introduced some how.
System has to work extended periods unattended.

Anything else needed for complete system but still simple?

B.S.
 
Most small salt water power heads (pumps) have a nipple to connect a 1/8" tube to draw air into the impeller creating tiny air bubbles in the out stream.
 
niteliteone said:
Most small salt water power heads (pumps) have a nipple to connect a 1/8" tube to draw air into the impeller creating tiny air bubbles in the out stream.
Dangit man, we have a Rube Goldberg machine to build here, and you go tossing out practical suggestions like that? Why use a simple bucket/tank and a single cheap OEM powerhead, when we can play with multiple levels of tanks, valves, assorted filtration media, plumbing, and then later get all the fun of diagnosing which bend has the air-bubble trapped that deprimed and burned out three inline pumps in a row? :lol:

Good idea, actually - I hadn't even considered that possibility - I had thought to just put the outlet decently above the water for aeration; your observation would let us have the outlet even with the surface to minimize the actual water agitation to the lowest level necessary, while still getting as much oxygen into solution as we could want. Kudos!
 
That red safety light just came on.
I wanted to set this up in my shop,but it
is going to create some gas.it would require a pretty big hood
to run an open system.
I am going back to my original idea,but with a 35 gallon chemical tank.
I will vent the tank outside and run a bubbler off my compressor.
The compressor is an oil type so I will add a dryer and filter to it.
the bubbler will carry the gas outside.since I have no neighbors there will be no danger
to anyone.the rest of the system will be much the same as original.
john
 
Yeah the HCl fumes will rust everything in the building if you try it indoors without a good, reliable hood. If the blower fails overnight you'll see the result in no time.
 
....Sigh...

Ok. The upper shallow tank for any and all boards is the only open container which, yes, requires a tightly fitting lid with an air hose hole and a vent tube to the outside air.
The only time the system is open is when you load and unload material. Much like my small 1gal. bucket has a straw pointing to the window with a fan in the other window. The only time I get a smell of Chlorine gas, faint smell, is when I add fresh HCL which if the intake fan is running and shed door is fully closed, all fumes exit straight through window.

:::safetly tip::: Make sure air flow is right before pouring any acid. Shed door left slightly open causes excess Chlorine fumes to linger which will over come you in 1 breath . Make dam sure you can hold your breath long enough to find the exit for fresh air!!!!

B.S.
...Overthinking always leads to too many mistakes, moving parts, and complications...
 
Hay Guys,
I was reading through the diy posts and found my post.I hate it when I find posts that were started and never completed,so I thought I would complete this one.
Here is what I did.
I came across a water tank from an old pop up camper I junked.I tested it with a gallon of AP for a week.It seemed not to have any problens holding the acid.the tank had a 1 1/4 fill pipe that was threaded for a cap.I installed two ball valves and a length of pvc pipe.There were two vent fitings near the top of the tank which became my air fitings.Then turned it over and cut the now top out to within a inch of the sides.I then added the plexi glass top with a 3/4 pvc vent through the wall.even if the nebulizer pump fails the fumes are still vented outside.
I leave the upper valve open so the motion the air creates can cause the foils to collect in the pipe,and it gets most of them.The ones left behind are for next time.the wire in the picture are from wire wrap boards I ran.The foils are in a 5 gallon bucket.
enjoy john
 

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The trash can it for safety in case something fails,and the last picture shows draining the tank through the air hose.
john
 
I like it!

I still haven't made the time to put anything together, been so busy I only spent three days working in the lab this whole year.

Your design closely fits the one in my head and I have a spot away from neighbors I can use to do this outside so I'll probably go with the 55-gallon drum laying on its side, using all the other aspects of your working setup.

Thank you for adding the pictures. It makes visualizing it simple.

I'd like to run about 20 pounds of fingers per batch.

Can't wait for Spring!
 
I did something very similar in a 120 gallon tank with a 30 gallon sump.

Make sure you use a chemical pump resistant to copper II chloride.

I used a gravity filter, made of plexi that originally was intended for salt water reef tanks. I have many of them laying around. They usually look something like this:

overflow%20boxes.jpg


Basically, the way the pre-works is by gravity. The solution falling down the backside to the sump tank, pulls solution out of the big tank you have your material in.

I use polypropylene sponge filters, also borrowed tech from salt water tank enthusiasts. The nice thing about using polypropylene is that you can put your entire sponge in an AR solution, and the sponge/filter will not dissolve, but the gold foil will.

So I use two sponge filters, one in the pre-filter and one in the sump. I adjust the tank so that the water breaks up as it flows down the tube. I do this to break the electrical connection through the flow of the solution into the sump. I plate the copper out in the sump using a method very similar to the same one on this website/page.

http://www.docbrown.info/page01/ExIndChem/electrochemistry06.htm

Plating the copper as it's being dissolved makes this system works more effectively, and with far less hassle.

From the chemical pump up to the 120 tank I use PCP pipe, and divided the pipes so that they distribute the solution going back into the tank, in several places. Heating, and then flattening the pipes on the end ensure that the pressure is increased as it exits the pipe in the tank solution, agitating it. I designed this system so the exit points can be moved slightly, to ensure that they can be directed against the material I put into the tank for processing. This helps to agitate the foils from the material, thus increasing the efficiency, and decreasing somewhat, the time required to de-foil the material.

I am using processing boards this way, so I use a shower curtain rod, with plastic shower curtain loops and polypropylene string. Two rods running the length of the tank. I simply drill two holes in the boards, and clip them to the poly string. As the boards de-foil I move them from one end of the tank to the other, pulling out the boards on one end, and entering them into solution at the other. In this way I ensure that the boards are subjected to different nozzles ( the pipe ends I slightly flattened ) and thus different angles and directions, helping with the de-foiling process.

At any given time, when there is enough gold foil captured by a poly filter, I remove and replace the filter with a clean one and never stop the process. Having a poly filter in the pre-filter, and sump, ensures I capture most of the gold foils easily, using a large cell sponge in the pre-filter, and finer ones in the sump. Also, if any gold foil does flow over the sponges due to not removing them soon enough and being too loaded with gold foil, the gold foils then re-circulate into the tank with no harm or loss.

Using this method the only real requirement is adding a small amount of HCl when the reaction discontinues removing the gold foil. Small additions of DI water are sometimes required due to evaporation. Also, another benefit to the pre-filter is that it adds a lot of oxygen to the solution as it is agitated. I purposefully created my pre-filter so that it has a slight angle as the water falls out of the tank into the filter because this also adds oxygen. I also use another piece of equipment intended for fish tanks, an air pump with tubes entering the main tank that have air stones on the ends. It does not matter where in the tank you place the stones as the solution is constantly moving through the tank.

When the sponges are removed for processing, I simply enter them into a reaction vessel, add AR and dissolve the foils directly into solution. No more filtering is required prior to this step.

You can easily come by this equipment used, I am fortunate in that I already have large salt water aquariums, and have the equipment on hand. But I have seen equipment like this sell for very little at good will type stores, Craigslist, garage sales, etc. The only real expense is the chemical pump, but well worth the investment. Many times, people who re-market equipment have these types of pumps and sell them for reasonable prices, or you might also find them on ebay. If you do use a used pump, ensure it is either refurbished or that you have it refurbished prior to using the pump, even then make sure you flush it well prior to use as some people do not flush them after using them. If you do not flush them you may be adding something in the pump to your copper II chloride solution that could have an adverse reaction.

I made a simple fume extraction hood out of scrap polypropylene plastic I purchased at TAP Plastics, connected to an exit tube and squirrel fan that exits outside the building. If you do not use some type of ventilation I would strongly suggest operating equipment like this in an open space, not enclosed. It does produce some small amounts of hydrogen gas, and other gases if you add the electrolytic process to your sump.

All in all, if you are smart about it, and take your time obtaining used equipment you can build a system that is similar very inexpensively.

I am not posting pictures of my own system, as I am trying to get the entire process patented. But I would be more than happy to answer any questions, and take suggestions on how to improve my own system.

Scott
 
NobleMetalWorks, that's a really elaborated idea, impressive.
As I would like to try out at least once a copper chloride cell, based on the distance between anode and cathode what amps and current are you using.
 
Just thought I would update this post.

What I did since I built that smaller tank.Built an A frame of steel added a 220v winch 5000 lb rated. Had one,bought a second 65 gallon poly tank.made metal frames for each with 4 lift on each frame .To the tank I installed 5 liter water filters purchased at local farm store.added a hose.
When the process is complete I fill the second tank with material, lift the tank,set the hose in the second tank.go to sleep,and forget it.So far it takes about 24 hours to filter the 60 gallons of AP. Then I process the filter and all in HCL/CL.the filter is good for a second batch,but that is it.
Forgot to mention.I add about 15 psi pressure to the tank to help speed up filtering,
john
P.S. Both my cameras are broken,when I get a new one I will post pictures.
Now on to a HHS generator
 
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