Geo
Well-known member
why create AgCl if you dont have to. draw or siphon the clear solution from the powder and cement what will drop with copper. thats just one step.converting to AgCl adds extra work and adds other stuff to the mix.
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A
Anonymous
Guest
Thanks for the info Geo.Geo said:
I'll try this method. Since I have plenty of mylars to work with, it's not a problem to do.
Also, from the siphoned solution, should I filter it first or save it for the next batch?
And what about the silver that already dropped to the bottom? Will that get picked up by the copper?
Kevin
Geo
Well-known member
any silver powder thats dropped is either one of two types (silver chloride or silver oxide) and nether will be effected by the copper. i would just siphon or draw off the solution and cement from there and keep that separate from the other powder which needs to be further processed before melting. cemented silver can be melted and cast into anode bars for a thum cell or sell as is. if the silver was clean (no other type PM's) and the copper is clean, the cemented silver should be 99% to 99.5%. 99.5% is considered bullion grade.
the powder that dropped, GSP could tell you how to test if it is an oxide or chloride. if it were me, i would treat it all as a chloride just to be sure. that way, nothing gets left behind.
the powder that dropped, GSP could tell you how to test if it is an oxide or chloride. if it were me, i would treat it all as a chloride just to be sure. that way, nothing gets left behind.
Pantherlikher
Well-known member
I'll have to do a search again to find it but LaserSteve did a post on melting everything and pouring the melted mylars off to reduce the bulk down leaving concentrated silver. Any clue as to where it ended up? A possibility perhaps?.
It seemed like a great idea when I read it.
BS.
Wondering how many different mylars I'm finding in anything with a keypad...
It seemed like a great idea when I read it.
BS.
Wondering how many different mylars I'm finding in anything with a keypad...
A
Anonymous
Guest
After using a heat gun, you then take a torch to it to burn the plastic away. I did one mylar like that so far, but I haven't concluded the results yet. I dedicated a melting dish to that mylar. I won't be using the dish for anything else. I may try one pound of mylars to see how it turns out.Smack said:
Keep in mind that burning the mylars will produce smoke and soot, which is very toxic if you breathe it in. Make sure you do this outside. I wouldn't even do it under a fume hood if I had one because of all the soot that will come up.
Kevin
A
Anonymous
Guest
I've been making progress, yet, I'm in need for some guidance.
No# 1. I tried the copper to drop the silver and it is phenomenal. It's so cool to look at the silver get attracted to the copper the way it does. On the humor side of this, it would have been nice if I knew that if that silver build up thick on the copper, it stands the chance of dropping off the copper like a piece of jelly or slime back into the solution. :shock:
No# 2. I noticed that after I had scraped the silver off the copper and put it in a clean beaker, after about 30 minutes or so, it'll turn from the sludge/paste back to a liquid.
No# 3. In the first photo below, after filtering my solutions in the beaker, this is what is left. It looks like carbon.
Question 1: Is that carbon?
NO# 4. I noticed that once the blob of silver dropped off the copper back into the rinse solution while trying to pull the copper out, it starts to dissolve within 30 minutes.
Question 2:What do I need to do to keep the silver from being redissolved once I take the copper out the jar and scraping the silver into the beaker?
No# 5. I have done a filter of the solution, but silver seem to drop to the bottom of the beaker.
Question 3: How do I collect the silver from the bottom of the beaker when the copper doesn't seem to collect it?
Thanks again for all the information and help. This is very exciting and I'm glad to be part of a loving and helping family here.
Kevin
No# 1. I tried the copper to drop the silver and it is phenomenal. It's so cool to look at the silver get attracted to the copper the way it does. On the humor side of this, it would have been nice if I knew that if that silver build up thick on the copper, it stands the chance of dropping off the copper like a piece of jelly or slime back into the solution. :shock:
No# 2. I noticed that after I had scraped the silver off the copper and put it in a clean beaker, after about 30 minutes or so, it'll turn from the sludge/paste back to a liquid.
No# 3. In the first photo below, after filtering my solutions in the beaker, this is what is left. It looks like carbon.
Question 1: Is that carbon?
NO# 4. I noticed that once the blob of silver dropped off the copper back into the rinse solution while trying to pull the copper out, it starts to dissolve within 30 minutes.
Question 2:What do I need to do to keep the silver from being redissolved once I take the copper out the jar and scraping the silver into the beaker?
No# 5. I have done a filter of the solution, but silver seem to drop to the bottom of the beaker.
Question 3: How do I collect the silver from the bottom of the beaker when the copper doesn't seem to collect it?
Thanks again for all the information and help. This is very exciting and I'm glad to be part of a loving and helping family here.
Kevin
Geo
Well-known member
Kevin, you still have free nitric. dissolve more silver with it. you dont want to scrape the silver off the copper. dissolve silver until no more will dissolve even if you have to warm the solution to make it dissolve more. when you cement the silver, leave the copper in solution and let the silver fall off until no more action is seen. the solution will be blue. the silver will stay in elemental form.
A
Anonymous
Guest
That's very informative Geo. I think I'm getting the gist of it now. Let me ask you.Geo said:
Since the silver should just compile until it doesn't collect anymore, and the solution turns blue (which one of my beakers is doing now) should I return the scrapings into the solution and let it do its job, or should I leave the silver I scraped off in the beaker?
Thanks again for all your help Geo. My wife is amazed at what I'm doing. She is now calling me "The Mad Scientist".
I can say one more thing too.... None of what I'm doing is discouraging to me. I assume all risks, yet, I'm not doing this for just the money. It's for the experience of being able to do it. That is the pleasure of this for me.
Ohhh,,, before I forget. I now notice a smell that smells like chlorine when I started using the copper. Is that what I'm smelling? I do have my front and back door open and the house is ventilated. It's not strong at all, but when I stand near the beakers, I can smell the chlorine (I think).
Kevin
qst42know
Well-known member
Don't process in your house!
Nitric acid doesn't belong in your house.
Don't process in your house!
Have you read the MSDS for nitric acid?
Your health is worth more than any amount of silver.
Nitric acid doesn't belong in your house.
Don't process in your house!
Have you read the MSDS for nitric acid?
Your health is worth more than any amount of silver.
Ohhh,,, before I forget. I now notice a smell that smells like chlorine when I started using the copper. Is that what I'm smelling? I do have my front and back door open and the house is ventilated. It's not strong at all, but when I stand near the beakers, I can smell the chlorine (I think).
Classic....I wonder if you'll see 2013
Classic....I wonder if you'll see 2013
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Anonymous
Guest
I took it outside and will process there.qst42know said:
I wonder if I see the next day, anyway. Point taken. No more processing with Nitric or other acids inside. I also had my doors open and I have read the MSDS sheet on the Nitric. Prolonged exposure or enough of it is deadly, but I don't believe I exposed myself to it that much. I know any amount can do you in, but I just hope that I didn't do myself or my family any harm or damage.Smack said:
The reason I say I thought I smelled chlorine is that I thought that the Nitric was being used up along with the copper and the silver, leaving my tap water smell in the jar. The smell was only right in the exact vicinity of the beakers, and not throughout the house or even a foot away from the beakers.
If I'm not here by 2013, it was my time to go, yet, if I do see 2013, I don't want to put my health at risk either. No more processing inside the house.
Kevin
[UPDATE]
Below is the link to the MSDS sheet on the Nitric Acid.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0183.htm
Geo
Well-known member
what you were smelling is NO and/or NOx. a person can detect as little as 1ppm, 14 ppm is deadly. not alot of leeway. because the silver on mylars is so fine, the reaction is fast and somewhat subdued it happens quickly unless its really cold. solids react longer and create the red fumes you would recognize.heating the solution forces the acid to react longer and and more fiercely absorbing more silver. when it absorbs all it can at ambient temperature, heating will make it dissolve more.
qst42know
Well-known member
Thanks Kevin.
Stay safe.
Stay safe.
Many of these fumes can be heavier than air, they could be filling your house with toxic acidic fumes at floor level (where you may not notice, you may also begin to notice metals in the area corroding after several days, some of the fumes from our solutions may not have that much smell (some can even smell somewhat sweet to us), others we can get to where we do not smell them any more after a little while, but this does not mean they will not cause us harm.
Kevin, do not take chances and stay safe, do not count on just your nose to tell your of dangers, use your brain also, how many tiny silver buttons would you be willing to trade for your health? Keep your health and the silver.
Kevin, do not take chances and stay safe, do not count on just your nose to tell your of dangers, use your brain also, how many tiny silver buttons would you be willing to trade for your health? Keep your health and the silver.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Thanks to the insensitive comment
* I learned a lesson that may have cost me myself and my family's health and (or) life. I'll never do any processing indoors. Period.
* I learned that one MSDS sheet on Nitric Acid and many other chemicals is NOT complete. I've found out more about nitric acid by reading more than one MSDS pdf file.
* I learned that there are different exposures... inhaling the gases, vapors and (or) fumes. Skin contact. Ingestion (swallowing).
* I learned that there are red gas, brown gas, and white gas/smoke. Inhaling any of those are deadly.
* I leaned that there are ppm (parts per million) that are deadly, and from one of the MSDS sheets I read, it is between 2 - 24 ppm.
* I leaned that if you don't experience any symptoms within 48 hours of exposure, you more than likely haven't been exposed to much to cause you any harm.
I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but when I started my nitric peroxide mix, I did it outside and I only had a total of 400ml mixture (200ml Nitric + 200ml Peroxide). By the time I bought it in the house from rinsing the mylars, I had a total of 1600ml, using tap water. So, it was diluted by 1200ml tap water. I know.. still, it's dangerous.
Once I bought it in and started using the copper, that's when I started smelling the chlorine (or at least I thought it was) only in the direct vicinity of the beakers. No gases were in the air and no color or odors in the air. During all that time it was in the house while I was working and observing the process, I had all my doors open, and during that time, we had winds up to 40 mph and it was cold, even in the house. It wasn't room temp in here.
Although 2013 isn't here yet and I still may be doomed, but I have not a single symptom... and it's been approximately 5 days since I started with the copper inside. But, again, never again indoors for me.
On an ending note of the above, can I make a recommendation to all members here?
If you know that someone has done something to potentially harm him/herself, it will only add to their fears if you make comments that will put them into hysteria. NEVER make a person feel doomed, even if they are. People need to hear advice, not insensitive remarks about their mistakes. It does that person no good and they can't focus correctly and they might even do something foolish all because someone has told them that they might not even see the next day because of what they did. Guide them to where to call, where to go, actions to take. That might make the person feel a bit easier about their condition.
I indeed learned my lesson. I will also post in the safety section to the links to ALL the MSDS sheets I've downloaded so far. Because of my mistake, I learned about Nitric Acid in a way that I'll never forget. Again, I feel fine and have had no symptoms at all. There are three humans and 1 dog in here and no one has changed as of yet.
Below is from after sitting a few days outside now. The first picture is from after the copper being placed in the solution, yet, the beaker to the right isn't reacting anymore. The copper is still there. I did change it once before after it got dissolved. The beaker on the left, I had to add more copper today because the other piece dissolved, and it's cold outside right now too, so I know the reaction will be slow.
Thanks again for all the help and support.
Kevin
I had been wondering and worrying about my demise, yet, at the same time, I've done so much research about Nitric Acid, I can tell this much...
* I learned a lesson that may have cost me myself and my family's health and (or) life. I'll never do any processing indoors. Period.
* I learned that one MSDS sheet on Nitric Acid and many other chemicals is NOT complete. I've found out more about nitric acid by reading more than one MSDS pdf file.
* I learned that there are different exposures... inhaling the gases, vapors and (or) fumes. Skin contact. Ingestion (swallowing).
* I learned that there are red gas, brown gas, and white gas/smoke. Inhaling any of those are deadly.
* I leaned that there are ppm (parts per million) that are deadly, and from one of the MSDS sheets I read, it is between 2 - 24 ppm.
* I leaned that if you don't experience any symptoms within 48 hours of exposure, you more than likely haven't been exposed to much to cause you any harm.
I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but when I started my nitric peroxide mix, I did it outside and I only had a total of 400ml mixture (200ml Nitric + 200ml Peroxide). By the time I bought it in the house from rinsing the mylars, I had a total of 1600ml, using tap water. So, it was diluted by 1200ml tap water. I know.. still, it's dangerous.
Once I bought it in and started using the copper, that's when I started smelling the chlorine (or at least I thought it was) only in the direct vicinity of the beakers. No gases were in the air and no color or odors in the air. During all that time it was in the house while I was working and observing the process, I had all my doors open, and during that time, we had winds up to 40 mph and it was cold, even in the house. It wasn't room temp in here.
Although 2013 isn't here yet and I still may be doomed, but I have not a single symptom... and it's been approximately 5 days since I started with the copper inside. But, again, never again indoors for me.
On an ending note of the above, can I make a recommendation to all members here?
If you know that someone has done something to potentially harm him/herself, it will only add to their fears if you make comments that will put them into hysteria. NEVER make a person feel doomed, even if they are. People need to hear advice, not insensitive remarks about their mistakes. It does that person no good and they can't focus correctly and they might even do something foolish all because someone has told them that they might not even see the next day because of what they did. Guide them to where to call, where to go, actions to take. That might make the person feel a bit easier about their condition.
I indeed learned my lesson. I will also post in the safety section to the links to ALL the MSDS sheets I've downloaded so far. Because of my mistake, I learned about Nitric Acid in a way that I'll never forget. Again, I feel fine and have had no symptoms at all. There are three humans and 1 dog in here and no one has changed as of yet.
Below is from after sitting a few days outside now. The first picture is from after the copper being placed in the solution, yet, the beaker to the right isn't reacting anymore. The copper is still there. I did change it once before after it got dissolved. The beaker on the left, I had to add more copper today because the other piece dissolved, and it's cold outside right now too, so I know the reaction will be slow.
Thanks again for all the help and support.
Kevin
A
Anonymous
Guest
I'm not sure what that mean.Smack said:
Also, you taught me a lesson to be well learned. I'm am not upset with you or anyone here at all. It's all good.
Kevin
[UPDATE]
just looked for what it may mean.
From: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jar
testerman,
I do not think it is anyone's intentions to make anyone fear any thing except that which should be feared (or respected), like using acids indoors without a fume hood, I think you wrote a good post and I agree with most of it.
I also believe there is no harm in telling someone that what they are doing is dangerous and they could kill themselves if they continued doing it.
Yelling stop do not keep going or you can die, to a man who is blindly walking towards a cliff may wake him up and help to save his life (if he gets scared and jumps well what can I say he may have just walked off the cliff anyways).
I think you need to look at the good intentions and concerns for your well being, and thank these guys for bringing this to your attention,(no matter how they yelled it), not try and make them think there was something wrong with yelling stop and using a strong enough words like they did to try get you to look further into where you were going.
To me a jar is a glass vessel, I am not sure what Smack was referring to but. I would not have thought any of those webster terms would apply.
Could he have meant to Jar you awake?
You did seem to wake up from that Jar.
I am sure he will explain what he meant.
I do not think it is anyone's intentions to make anyone fear any thing except that which should be feared (or respected), like using acids indoors without a fume hood, I think you wrote a good post and I agree with most of it.
I also believe there is no harm in telling someone that what they are doing is dangerous and they could kill themselves if they continued doing it.
Yelling stop do not keep going or you can die, to a man who is blindly walking towards a cliff may wake him up and help to save his life (if he gets scared and jumps well what can I say he may have just walked off the cliff anyways).
I think you need to look at the good intentions and concerns for your well being, and thank these guys for bringing this to your attention,(no matter how they yelled it), not try and make them think there was something wrong with yelling stop and using a strong enough words like they did to try get you to look further into where you were going.
To me a jar is a glass vessel, I am not sure what Smack was referring to but. I would not have thought any of those webster terms would apply.
Could he have meant to Jar you awake?
You did seem to wake up from that Jar.
I am sure he will explain what he meant.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Yes Indeed. I personally have to thank Smack for that comment. I'm sure he meant well, yet, I've been walking around here thinking "Any day now, and I'm out of here".butcher said:
This has been an experience I'll never forget, and at the same time, I now know the exact respect Nitric Acid and any other chemicals need. No short cuts and no half-stepping or rushing.
I can say this much too "This DID wake me up". For sure.
Much Love to all of you, especially you Smack, because I needed a smack on that one.
Kevin
