Back yard Prospecting

[Southfork]

Looks to me the retort uses gauze on the discharge side, this would in my opinion act as a siphon break but in Southfork's arrangement it appears to me he is using a solid tube submerged in water.

View attachment 55763
View attachment 55764

Your right I did it wasn't a problem on the new retort but I understand what your saying and the dangers. The water in the new retort will not get hot when hooked up properly and the discharge pipe stays cool from one end to the other.

 

[Southfork]

Southfork, it seems to me you're misunderstanding what people are warning about. There is no issue with the cooling portion of your condenser. The issue is with the discharge pipe that runs inside the condenser from the retort to the beaker that catches the mercury.

When you heat the gold and mercury in your retort, everything gets hot, including the air which expands. When the heat is removed, either intentionally at the end of the run, or unintentionally if your burner should happen to run out of propane, the air inside the retort chamber is going to cool and contract. That causes a partial vacuum inside the retort chamber. It's that vacuum that is of concern. With your discharge tube immersed in the beaker of water, that vacuum can draw water back up through the tube. If enough water is drawn it, it can make its way into the very hot retort chamber. If it does, you can have a very serious problem. That's what everyone is trying to warn about.

Having said that, by the looks of your particular retort, you may or may not experience this problem. Your retort chamber appears to be pretty small, and the tube that leads from it through the condenser and into the discharge beaker seems to be of a fairly large diameter. I'm guessing that the volume of the tube is probably sufficient to keep any water sucked back in as the retort cools from ever reaching the retort chamber. But to be safe, and more importantly for anyone who may look at your pictures in the future and whose retort setup does not provide that safety margin, you really should follow the advise of keeping the end of your discharge hose above the top level of the water in your beaker. Attach a short "tube" of fabric from the end of the rubber tube into the water in the beaker.

That's all I can type for now.

Dave

Thanks Dave I understand what your saying! I will use the cloth filter in the future to eliminate any possible explosion my thoughts about vapor escaping are not warranted with the cooled tube.

 

[Southfork]

Looks to me the retort uses gauze on the discharge side, this would in my opinion act as a siphon break but in Southfork's arrangement it appears to me he is using a solid tube submerged in water.

The retort I have has in and out pipes on the side that hook to a submersible aquarium pump in an additional / separate tank when hooked up the water in the retort tank will not over heat. It worked without a siphon break and will not overheat as long as the pump is running. But I'm going to use the siphon break as a safeguard.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Yeah, I didn't really like the one stoneware showed with the cap on top to fill it with cooling water. Very limited capacity that way. I would definitely want a way to circulate fresh water into and out of the cooling jacket.

Dave

 

[stoneware]

Yeah, I didn't really like the one stoneware showed with the cap on top to fill it with cooling water. Very limited capacity that way. I would definitely want a way to circulate fresh water into and out of the cooling jacket.

Dave

Dave had you followed Southforks url you would have discovered something much different than you've implied.

Southforks url leads to the image, because URL's change so frequently in order to preserve the image, it now resides on the gold refining forum in perpetuity.

The URL used is hot linked to ebay, two weeks from now it would lead to a missing image.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VVcAAOxyA4ZRXIgX/s-l1600.jpg

 

[Southfork]

Stoneware the same manufacture made both models at least both were for sale on the same web site. What's the problem buy the one that you like if you're in the market for one. I like the model I purchased because I have a use for it and have used the other type just my personal preference. No information on use or who manufactured it or where just came in a cardboard box. I went out to my barn workshop and found the box my retort came in just an individuals name and address. Instructions said to hook up like I had it or with a pump with the exception of the mercury vapor filter like said here. what it forgot to say is the upper hose would be damaged by the heat and spring a leak. The pump is the way to go? I have one on the way I will test again soon and see if the upper hose stays cool. If not, I will move the pipe down not a problem.

 

[stoneware]

Stoneware the same manufacture made both models at least both were for sale on the same web site. What's the problem buy the one that you like if you're in the market for one. I like the model I purchased because I have a use for it and have used the other type just my personal preference. No information on use or who manufactured it or where just came in a cardboard box.

I have a metal lathe and a welder with those two pieces of equipment, I'm able to make my own toys.

As for instructions on how to use a mercury amalgam retort this topic is covered in great detail in both the Hokes Refining Precious Metals Wastes book and that published by C.W. Ammen titled, Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals.

The Hoke's book is available at no cost on the forum, for those interested in purchasing Ammens here's the ISBN number: ISBN:0412079011

 

[stoneware]

Monkey see monkey do, would hate for others to follow your dangerous practices, read Hoke's for the correct method of using the retort.

The hose should not be submerged, a wet cloth should be attached to act as a siphon break.

IMO your much to arrogant to admit when your wrong, but the forum members with more patience than I will make up for your shortfalls - read Hoke's book to save us the trouble.

View attachment 55757

 

[stoneware]

The retort I made was similar to the one below.

 

[goldshark]

The heating pot is clearly in the first photo. How can it explode the condensing tube is open / clear all the amalgam was wet the small amount of steam bubbled out into the jar. The condensing tube will be kept cool by circulation in the retort tank. I had a piece of cotton material on the end of a short plastic tube it was wicking water up, so I tried the rubber hose instead.

I think the problem lays in what you are calling the condenser tube. The large cooling chamber surrounds the condenser tube. The condenser tube is one pipe from the amalgam pot, curves down through the cooling chamber, draining into the collector cup. The cooling jacket/chamber is vented to the atmosphere, but the condenser pipe will/ can suck water up the condensing pipe, into the amalgam pot. If you do not understand this concept, I would recommend you don't do any more retorting until you do understand it. We are not here to belittle you, just trying to tell you a little trick, so you don't lose a body part, or blow the Mercury you dredged up back into the river. Do not submerge the hose under water into the collector cup. Do as Stoneware suggested, PLEASE.

 

[jobinyt]

"1 drop of water will expand 17,000 times in volume" - about 1 tenth of that I think.

 

[goldshark]

"1 drop of water will expand 17,000 times in volume" - about 1 tenth of that I think.

Yup, added 1 too many zeros, nice catch. I appreciate it when people double check, thanks.

 

[Southfork]

I think the problem lays in what you are calling the condenser tube. The large cooling chamber surrounds the condenser tube. The condenser tube is one pipe from the amalgam pot, curves down through the cooling chamber, draining into the collector cup. The cooling jacket/chamber is vented to the atmosphere, but the condenser pipe will/ can suck water up the condensing pipe, into the amalgam pot. If you do not understand this concept, I would recommend you don't do any more retorting until you do understand it. We are not here to belittle you, just trying to tell you a little trick, so you don't lose a body part, or blow the Mercury you dredged up back into the river. Do not submerge the hose under water into the collector cup. Do as Stoneware suggested, PLEASE.

You need to give it a rest I already said I would use the vapor break in the future for added safety. The concept that my retort recirculates the cooling water into a separate tank then back into the retorts cooling tank seems to be missing. The condenser tube will not get hot if the pump is running and ice can be added to the auxiliary tank for additional cooling if needed.

 

[goldshark]

You are not acknowledging that you understand the concept behind the warnings issued to you. The condenser tube cooling we understand will stay cool. That is not the issue, once again. I don't know why you are always so argumentative against what seems like all on this forum. When wrong, admit your wrong, then move on. Moving on.

 

[Southfork]

You are not acknowledging that you understand the concept behind the warnings issued to you. The condenser tube cooling we understand will stay cool. That is not the issue, once again. I don't know why you are always so argumentative against what seems like all on this forum. When wrong, admit your wrong, then move on. Moving on.

I already said I would use the vapor break in the future for added safety.
Thanks Dave I understand what your saying! I will use the cloth filter in the future to eliminate any possible explosion my thoughts about vapor escaping are not warranted with the cooled tube. My reply to FrugalRefiner .

 

[stoneware]

In my opinion Southfork, the retort you're using is of poor design, looking at the amalgam chamber just above the outlet pipe. This area will act as a vapor trap.

As fro the water ports, lower one is the supply port and exit top port should have been mounted higher than the mercury pipe leading through the cooling chamber.

Also the welds are poorly done, have you pressure tested the welds for leaks. Poor welds could porious with inclusions of flux

 

[Southfork]

Yes I did test it because of the poor welding and did some grinding / finishing on the chamber it works fine. Most of the parts look like they were scrounged from dumpster diving. Old basic design with poor workmanship but it will work. Show the one you made it makes no difference which port is used they are on the outside edge of the cooling chamber. Find another dead horse to beat

 

[goldshark]

Probably one of the most important items not covered, what 200 times already, is the use of a high temperature "luting" or clay seal, for the sealing of any joints in/on the heating part of the Amalgam hosting pot, wether they be threaded, or clamp style seal. This is critical, and I have already mentioned it once, but doesn't hurt to re emphasize safety protocols.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

it makes no difference which port is used they are on the outside edge of the cooling chamber.

Actually, you do want the cool water to come in at the discharge end. The cooling water warms as it goes through the cooling chamber. The gasses come in hot and are still greatly cooled by the somewhat warmed water at the top end. By the time they reach the discharge end they are cooled further by the cooler, fresh water, so it's a little more effective.

Dave

 

[goldshark]

Just to debate you on a small point, if enough flow is obtained in the circulating water bath, via a small pump, the heat transfer will be so minimal from end to end of the condensing pipe, that it would be negligible. Never the less, there would be a slight temperature difference, as stated, but it would require a super sensitive thermometer to measure that difference. Not enough to state it is dangerous, but when something can be done correctly, why not do it? Just good procedure.