Buying scrap from scrappers.

[glauco]

Hey folks! How you doing?

I'm looking all around for auctions and persons who wants to free some space and I'm having some success. I'm always based on your past posts to pay correct prices for what I found and I never go too far on auctions. Right now I'm talking to an institute here in Brazil to test the extraction using a Knelson Concentrator KC-MD3. If it goes fine, I can finantiate it through government bank (around $3k), pay in four years and with no interest.

What I realized here is that in Brazil is very easy to find out public repartitions and companies selling out their old equipment in lots of thousands. For sure you need some time to check all of them and also to visit them sometimes, but you may find very good prices.

What else I realized is that the guys who buys electronic scrap this way here in Brazil don't do the mining by themselves like you do: they pass forward to big companies who do most part off-shore. These guys have no idea on how easy is to recover gold from those parts, and they got surprise when I told them I'm collecting to myself.

I would like to know from you guys if this is the same reality you have in your countries and how much would you pay above your common prices for processors and boards if you got good quantities from scrappers who already does the dismantling and separation of materials.

Very Tks!

 

[butcher]

glauco,
Collecting, recovery and refining of electronic scrap, on a small hobby scale, and doing it on an industrial scale are two completely different things; I think you may have these two confused with each other.

 

[glauco]

glauco,
Collecting, recovery and refining of electronic scrap, on a small hobby scale, and doing it on an industrial scale are two completely different things; I think you may have these two confused with each other.

No, I'm still thinking in small production. But I intend to get out of my professional life very soon and to try other ways to live long before the gold idea. But is getting so easy to find out good amount here with so good prices, that a little more than a small scale production would fit very well in a Knelson equipment. It is intended for small scale anyway, and without all that dangerous and expensive chemical processes. And you bet that I'm the kind of guy ready to get a small van and get out through my country only to collect :twisted:

 

[Claudie]

I don't think you're going to get away from using chemicals in the refining of Gold. How does a concentrator separate the Gold plated pieces, or the pieces soldered to others? I do understand how it might work well with concentrates but not electronic parts, crushed or not.

 

[Smack]

The hardest thing to overcome in getting the gold out of E-scrap is the separation of the gold from the metal it's plated to and those metals very in type and that's where chemicals come into play.

It's amazing how much scrap I don't pay for but so many people talking about how much should I pay for scrap. I would pay for computer scrap if it's been taken apart and segregated properly and then I would pay whatever I need to pay so I can double my money otherwise it's just not worth my time. This also depends on volume. Go door to door to businesses, factories, wear a company shirt with a collar and your name on it(dress for success), have business cards and flyers ready to hand out, have your pitch down and just sell yourself and your company/services, that is what's gotten me the best responses and business in the service industry. Don't advertize on the radio unless you have something for free and even then think it over real well, been down that road. Phone book works and ads in the paper work but nothing like selling belly to belly. If your going to close a big deal, try to do it right after the other party has eaten, people are more likely to say yes on a full stomach.

It amazes me how many businesses horde all the old electronic stuff because they don't know what to do with it. Just did a clean out on an accounting business that closed because the owner died and I don't think the guy ever thew anything away, he still had computers from 79' and 80'. Maybe it's just my area but it's like this at least 5 in 10 places I hit up if not more.

 

[canedane]

Write:
These guys have no idea on how easy is to recover gold from those parts, and they got surprise when I told them I'm collecting to myself.

I dont find it easy.
I have study for years now, and i will not say it are easy to recover pm.
Every time i learn some thing, new questions comes to my head.
I will only do the most simple proces, like gold fingers, pins and goldcorner bga.
If i should recover the most stuff my self i will need a fume hood and a scrupper, and mutch more study.
I feel it is my duty to avoid polution,and the nessesary equipment is expencive to prevent that.
So i will sell my major parts e scrap to professionels ,or to the members here, there have the fumehoods/scruppers.
So is years of studing waistet? No not at all, now i know excactly what i can do ,save and right,and what i cant do.
Thank you to all the moderators here, well thanks isent enough, i will give a donation when i have sold all the stuff i have collect for 14 years now to a german scrap dealer.
A special thanks to Harold,he is a great mentor and keeping the forum disciplined, and to Butcher with the big heart,he is so helpsom and freindly, i admire him for that.
Henrik

 

[g_axelsson]

... he still had computers from 79' and 80'. ...

Those computers could have a real vintage value several times higher than the gold value.

Göran

 

[glauco]

I don't think you're going to get away from using chemicals in the refining of Gold. How does a concentrator separate the Gold plated pieces, or the pieces soldered to others? I do understand how it might work well with concentrates but not electronic parts, crushed or not.

Yeah, I know that, but it will reduce a lot. I'm getting instructions on how to incinerate the parts for the centrifuge here: http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=16975. Then I will send the sample for the guys in Australia (not Brazil, my mistake), and then he will run the tests using the Knelson equipment that the guys from Savona Equipment recomended. As you know, in the report they show how to repeat the essay! Hehehe... If it works as it should, I will finance one for myself. This will reduce the use of chemicals a lot and is not so expansive.

The hardest thing to overcome in getting the gold out of E-scrap is the separation of the gold from the metal it's plated to and those metals very in type and that's where chemicals come into play.

It's amazing how much scrap I don't pay for but so many people talking about how much should I pay for scrap. I would pay for computer scrap if it's been taken apart and segregated properly and then I would pay whatever I need to pay so I can double my money otherwise it's just not worth my time. This also depends on volume. Go door to door to businesses, factories, wear a company shirt with a collar and your name on it(dress for success), have business cards and flyers ready to hand out, have your pitch down and just sell yourself and your company/services, that is what's gotten me the best responses and business in the service industry. Don't advertize on the radio unless you have something for free and even then think it over real well, been down that road. Phone book works and ads in the paper work but nothing like selling belly to belly. If your going to close a big deal, try to do it right after the other party has eaten, people are more likely to say yes on a full stomach.

That's exactly my idea . Using the tutorials from here, acumulating for long time and processing everything at once in various small lots using a centrifuge looks good. It is not a way to get rich, but is way better then a 40h week job that I will quit anyway.

Write:
These guys have no idea on how easy is to recover gold from those parts, and they got surprise when I told them I'm collecting to myself.

I dont find it easy.
I have study for years now, and i will not say it are easy to recover pm.
Every time i learn some thing, new questions comes to my head.
I will only do the most simple proces, like gold fingers, pins and goldcorner bga.
If i should recover the most stuff my self i will need a fume hood and a scrupper, and mutch more study.
I feel it is my duty to avoid polution,and the nessesary equipment is expencive to prevent that.
So i will sell my major parts e scrap to professionels ,or to the members here, there have the fumehoods/scruppers.
So is years of studing waistet? No not at all, now i know excactly what i can do ,save and right,and what i cant do.
Thank you to all the moderators here, well thanks isent enough, i will give a donation when i have sold all the stuff i have collect for 14 years now to a german scrap dealer.
A special thanks to Harold,he is a great mentor and keeping the forum disciplined, and to Butcher with the big heart,he is so helpsom and freindly, i admire him for that.
Henrik

For sure is not easy, but is not rocket science too. After all, I have a friend who is chemist that will help me on all the steps.

 

[butcher]

Rocket science is easy for someone who knows it, who has spent years learning and practicing the science, and skill.

Precious metals recovery and refining is easy for someone who knows it, who has spent years learning and practicing the science and skills.

Many skills are easy once you know them.

Many skills look to be very simple, until you begin to learn them, and then see how complicated they really are.

The more you learn about them, the more you learn how much more there is to learn about them.

Precious metal recovery and refining is like many other complicated sciences and skills, you can spend several lifetimes studying and practicing these skills, and still only learn a small portion of all there is to them.

 

[glauco]

Well, I see the readers here learning.
I have time. I think I can.

 

[butcher]

Yes if you have an interest, and are willing to work to learn the skill you can.
Just like rocket science if you are interested and willing to do the needed study and work you can learn it.
With all of the information provided on the forum, you have found the best place in the world to learn from.

Unless you can find a private mentor, who is a master of this craft, who would be willing to teach you this art, then this forum is the best place to gain the understanding of recovery and refining precious metals.
I like to refer to the forum as a university in the science of precious metals.

Here on the forum you have many who are also leaning, who will help, and discuss this interest with you, sharing with you what they have learned, and several professionals who are kind enough to share their vast knowledge in the subjects, willing to share their hard earned knowledge, and guidance.

The first thing you may learn is it is not as easy as you think it is, but that it is not hard to learn, although it will take time.

How fast you learn can depend much on how you go about learning, jumping in head first thinking it is simple, and easy, is a simple and easy way to waste your time in learning, it is a good way to make a lot of simple mistakes, and loosing precious metals, doing things dangerously with no understanding of these dangers, putting yourself and others in danger from the toxic metal compounds, this wastes your time and your money...

Spending the time to studying and to learn the basic principles, learning the safety aspects, and the procedures used and why things work the way they do, and why others will not work chemically, puts you in a good place for gaining more knowledge and prepares you for when you begin to practice these skills...

 

[Smack]

I wouldn't quit the 40 hour a week job until you doing scrap and PM recovery and refining can more than replace the income (on a regular basis) from the 40 hr. job. Plus healthcare. After the 40 hrs. you work each week, theoretically you can work at least another 80 hrs. on scrap and still have time for some sleep but not much else.

 

[glauco]

Yes if you have an interest, and are willing to work to learn the skill you can.
Just like rocket science if you are interested and willing to do the needed study and work you can learn it.
With all of the information provided on the forum, you have found the best place in the world to learn from.

Unless you can find a private mentor, who is a master of this craft, who would be willing to teach you this art, then this forum is the best place to gain the understanding of recovery and refining precious metals.
I like to refer to the forum as a university in the science of precious metals.

Here on the forum you have many who are also leaning, who will help, and discuss this interest with you, sharing with you what they have learned, and several professionals who are kind enough to share their vast knowledge in the subjects, willing to share their hard earned knowledge, and guidance.

That's exactly what I think about this place. This forum in an unprecedented source of resources and informations ever made. The only two places where I found so many important information for free are on Professor James McCanney's studies and the people from Keppe Motor here in Brazil. The instructions here made me feel like ancient alchemists and miners looking for hidden gold =P
Actually I'm pretty sure my ancestries smuggles and mined gold here during the 1600's...

The first thing you may learn is it is not as easy as you think it is, but that it is not hard to learn, although it will take time.

How fast you learn can depend much on how you go about learning, jumping in head first thinking it is simple, and easy, is a simple and easy way to waste your time in learning, it is a good way to make a lot of simple mistakes, and loosing precious metals, doing things dangerously with no understanding of these dangers, putting yourself and others in danger from the toxic metal compounds, this wastes your time and your money...

Spending the time to studying and to learn the basic principles, learning the safety aspects, and the procedures used and why things work the way they do, and why others will not work chemically, puts you in a good place for gaining more knowledge and prepares you for when you begin to practice these skills...

Well, I'm so decided on doing that, that I already have +/- 500 processors, including dozens of old ceramic ones. Also A LOT (yes, a lot) of motherboards, pcis, hds and dimm. If everything goes fine, I will win +/- 500pcs, all old Pentium in auctions on next two weeks. Tomorrow, more is coming. Summing all the values (if I win the auctions I'm running), I would pay less than $1000. I guess all the iron and copper I will acquire will pay a half of it.
Also I think I'm a very lucky guy. One of my best friends and neighbor is chemistry. He is very anxious to do that with me. :twisted:

I wouldn't quit the 40 hour a week job until you doing scrap and PM recovery and refining can more than replace the income (on a regular basis) from the 40 hr. job. Plus healthcare. After the 40 hrs. you work each week, theoretically you can work at least another 80 hrs. on scrap and still have time for some sleep but not much else.

Neither me! I found you guys long after I decided to quit my carreer. I'm saving money for past two years, and I started here three weeks ago. What I'm learning here will be used to fill my time. Got it =)? I didn't had nothing so deep to do before. Also, we have public medicine in Brazil and cheap healthcare signatures. It is a so crazy idea that cannot fail.

 

[nickvc]

Glauco I'd advise spending your time reading and learning and not buying items that you may lose money on, yields for much e scrap depends on the experience and knowledge of those refining it, collect scrap that's free and sort it ready for the recovery and refining and don't think in terms of the base metal values in components you will struggle to even recover them let alone sell what you do.
Large e scrap recoverers granulate, incinerate, mechanically sort and eventually melt all the metals together, assay the resulting bars and ship to copper refiners for settlement in around 90 days.
Here on the forum we advise cherry picking the scrap and selling on material that will never yield a profit or even cover the costs of recovery and refining leaving our time out of the equation is fine if it's a hobby but not if you need to earn an income from it.
There is money in e scrap but it's hard hard work to get it unless you get large volumes or high yielding items only to work with, you might find its more profitable to buy and sell than refine but only by reading will you find that out.

 

[Anonymous]

As Nick, Butcher, and others have said there's a world of difference between doing it as a hobby and the scales required to make it a viable commercial venture.

The best financial returns are based around cherry picking the best kit to refine yourself whilst knowing what to trade on. All of which is made simpler by plenty of first hand experience.

Effectively it's a steep learning curve that initially involves some investment in order to improve. Best of luck though.

Jon

 

[Justincase]

The Tapajos River Basin in the Brazilian Amazon is the location of one of the largest concentrations of artisan/small-scale miners in the world. Today, 40,000 miners producing 8 t of gold year.
From what little I have learn from your regen it would seem that most of the small scale producers get a very low price for what they produce from middle men who then transport it to the larger refiners who convert it into international investment bullion.
Why if you live in a country with such a large grass root culture of production would you wast your time with what little has left your country and dripped back in consumer products.
The monopoly seem to be well guarded and I do not think the people already trading would welcome a new comer.
But if you offered a fare alternative to them and better rates I should think your potential turnover would be quite good.
By giving your money to small scale artisan miners you would be helping some of the poorest people in your country and be able to pass on some of the wisdom from this forum to them.
Security would be a big problem as I understand it tho.

 

[glauco]

Glauco I'd advise spending your time reading and learning and not buying items that you may lose money on, yields for much e scrap depends on the experience and knowledge of those refining it, collect scrap that's free and sort it ready for the recovery and refining and don't think in terms of the base metal values in components you will struggle to even recover them let alone sell what you do.
Large e scrap recoverers granulate, incinerate, mechanically sort and eventually melt all the metals together, assay the resulting bars and ship to copper refiners for settlement in around 90 days.
Here on the forum we advise cherry picking the scrap and selling on material that will never yield a profit or even cover the costs of recovery and refining leaving our time out of the equation is fine if it's a hobby but not if you need to earn an income from it.
There is money in e scrap but it's hard hard work to get it unless you get large volumes or high yielding items only to work with, you might find its more profitable to buy and sell than refine but only by reading will you find that out.

I'm focusing only on auctions with big quantity and low prices. As an example, I won two auctions with +300 P4 and +200SDRAM for -$200, and I'm winning two auctions with ~400 Pentium 100 computers for $100 total. These are complete machines with around 100 monitors, each one I can sell for $.25/kg (the tube) immediatly. I believe that in less than one week I can separate the boards, cables, processors, aluminum and copper from them and sell tubes, cables, metal and copper on following week. Cleaned house, $ recovered and a lot of funny work of sorting and catalog for next month. Finished, I will do some chemical/electrolitical mining with my friend on following month, send some incinerated samples to Australia for testing with centrifuge, and get gold and platinum. What else could I ask for?

As Nick, Butcher, and others have said there's a world of difference between doing it as a hobby and the scales required to make it a viable commercial venture.

The best financial returns are based around cherry picking the best kit to refine yourself whilst knowing what to trade on. All of which is made simpler by plenty of first hand experience.

Effectively it's a steep learning curve that initially involves some investment in order to improve. Best of luck though.

Jon

I don't want nothing like "comercial viable". I want gold, hehehe. If cost pays off over buying gold, that's great. And I really want to learn this and some other things like working with glass and precious gems. I don't want computer programming any more :evil:

The Tapajos River Basin in the Brazilian Amazon is the location of one of the largest concentrations of artisan/small-scale miners in the world. Today, 40,000 miners producing 8 t of gold year.
From what little I have learn from your regen it would seem that most of the small scale producers get a very low price for what they produce from middle men who then transport it to the larger refiners who convert it into international investment bullion.
Why if you live in a country with such a large grass root culture of production would you wast your time with what little has left your country and dripped back in consumer products.
The monopoly seem to be well guarded and I do not think the people already trading would welcome a new comer.
But if you offered a fare alternative to them and better rates I should think your potential turnover would be quite good.
By giving your money to small scale artisan miners you would be helping some of the poorest people in your country and be able to pass on some of the wisdom from this forum to them.
Security would be a big problem as I understand it tho.

That's not a good idea to deal with these people in their business. They are doing that for past centuries deep in the jungle, too smart on that, and not so poor as well. I prefer to do my things without dealing with stakeholders.

 

[Claudie]

You can sell the Cathode Ray Tubes from monitors? :shock:

 

[glauco]

You can sell the Cathode Ray Tubes from monitors? :shock:

Yes, man :lol: . An University here in Brazil developed an way to separate dangerous things and refine them. They buys each complete monitor for $0,07/kg or the tube for $0,27/kg. Actually they are very close to my city.

 

[Claudie]

Probably too many regulations for them to ever start that in the US. I know there are tons of them out there that people don't know what to do with. :|