Can anyone explain this very strange precipitation?

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It basically comes down to practicality. Can you get gold from sea water? sure, but there's no practical way of doing it. Nuclear scientist may get very excited to find a new element in an atom smasher but if it takes a nuclear explosion to make a measurable amount, why would any of us really care? This carries over from my original take on it. If it were a member here, we could ask about it and try to replicate it. Without the input of the person that made the video, every hypothesis or guess just invites others to try and refute it. Topics that have a question that can not be answered will eventually cause a disruption. Of course this is just my opinion and we all know about those.
 
I can second that. I managed to drop gold with significant amount of golden particles among usual tan mud using just smb.
 
Geo said:
Without the input of the person that made the video, every hypothesis or guess just invites others to try and refute it. Topics that have a question that can not be answered will eventually cause a disruption.

I agree. Just thought some of the pros here might have witnessed a similar looking precipitation and could share their experience.
 
I skimmed this thread.

I too have had gold form platelets/crystallites in this fashion, mostly when I was using a selective organic precipitant.


I would say that factors to achieve such a result would be:

1. Lower concentration
2. Slow growth of nucleates
3. Presence of chelators (for instance, Versenol 120 perhaps even sulfamic or EDTA) to manage the growth.
 
Lou said:
I skimmed this thread.

I too have had gold form platelets/crystallites in this fashion, mostly when I was using a selective organic precipitant.


I would say that factors to achieve such a result would be:

1. Lower concentration
2. Slow growth of nucleates
3. Presence of chelators (for instance, Versenol 120 perhaps even sulfamic or EDTA) to manage the growth.

Thanks for sharing your experience Lou. Do you think the posted video is showing a precipitation? If so, doesn't the solution look pretty concentrated?
 
WARNING!! This is meant to be a story and not a set of instructions. When I did this, I was young and fearless. I still am fairly fearless but there are certain things I won't do. There probably are some dangers in the below process. Should one have concerns about adding the acetone to the AR? Will it explode under certain conditions? Are any of the gases produced toxic? It had a strong unique stink about it. This is a don't-try-this-yourself story, is what I want to say.

Story:
After reading Lou's post and thinking back on this, I did find a method (in the 60s) that would produce those swirling beautiful crystals every time. I dissolved about an ounce or two of pure gold in AR, added some acetone, put it all in a beaker on a magnetic stirrer, and dropped the gold with a form of EDTA, Versonol 120, an alkaline, syrupy, liquid chelating agent made by Dow. When V120 combines with AR, some formaldehyde is released. The formaldehyde (I think) is what drops the gold.

I've seen gold crystals form occasionally in the refinery but these were the most beautiful. I stuck a glass slide in it, let it dry and then looked at the gold crystals, at about 1000-1200 power under the huge B&L Metallograph that we had at work. The crystals were mostly all separated into brilliant perfect hexagons of like size. I almost needed sun glasses to look at them.
 
Awesome GSP! Great info for the thread.

Even though this thread was started because of a video that's based on false premises, I still think it's good to compile different experiences with precipitating gold in this beautiful form. There doesn't seem to be much literature on the specific subject.
 
Very interesting speculation...

I can comment on the BDG speculation:

g_axelsson said:
You wanted to know how to precipitate gold as flakes? As I understand it (never done it myself) oxalic acid precipitation of gold from a butyldiglyme gold chloride solution falls as small golden flakes. I don't see any proof of that in the video though.

Göran

I have used Butyldiglyme (BDG) often and to good effect. During my own process, and I suspect this is probably most likely the case with most of the processes where BDG is used to extract gold from an acidic solution, just prior to reducing the gold I wash it with HCl. This removes any of the other metals that may have carried over into the BDG. After this part of the process, the solution is a very nice gold to orange-ish gold color, but I have yet to see it ever as red as this video looks. Also, BDG is an oily solvent, I have yet to see anything stick to the sides of the reaction vessels when I use this process. Also, when Oxalic acid is added, it's a reduction process that causes the gold to clump, not flake, although it does sometimes float.

A few things that bother me about what the poster as written are thus. First, the poster describes themselves as being an artist, "Elias the Artist", which might be the first hint that this is not real, but rather a performance piece by a self proclaimed artist of sorts. Although I have not spent the time attempting to google this artist, nor the name of this proclaimed alchemy (which is a bunch of crap by the way) process, "VITRIOL of the MOON & MERCURY " does also lead me to believe that "Vitriol" if referring to chemistry would be iron or copper sulfate salts and their derivative, sulfuric acid. This would explain the red color if in fact it is iron in the solution. Mercury is self explanatory but as for the "moon" I am not sure what they might refer to, a moon cycle perhaps, 24 hour period?

Regardless....

This type of precipitation, if it is in fact gold, can be explained as being many different things causing the visual affects and precipitation. For example, some amino acids will cause gold to collect to a specific size and then precipitate, but this does not seem to be the case in this video. The way whatever material it is, makes it's way to the bottom would lead me to believe that what we see and assume as being shiny, isn't metal at all, but air bubbles. And the thickness of the precipitated material on the bottom is not compact, it's actually very finely divided gold, if it is in fact gold at all. I have seen this exact type of precipitation of gold many times, as I use this process myself. Here are a few pictures, although my lab glass is clean, you can imagine if it was not. And the solution can become very red if the solution is reduced, or too much of the precipitant is used. Here are the pictures:

In this one you can see very finely divided gold, with air bubbles included. This would be after about 30 min - 1 hour of precipitation. Also notice how much precipitated gold there seems to be on the bottom. To give some perspective, this is in a 1000 ML beaker. This is approx 1.2 grams of gold.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56505223/2012-09-29 04.08.06.jpg

In this picture you can actually see the gold collecting on the top of the solution, notice how the gold looks to be crystals, but in fact it is not. Also notice how the air bubbles are under the precipitated gold. The gold is actually floating as you will see in the next picture.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56505223/2012-09-29 04.08.19.jpg

I am adding this picture just for reference and interest. This is what the picture above looks like from a birds eye view looking down into the beaker:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56505223/2012-09-29 04.06.18.jpg

It looks like a lot of gold, but in fact it is actually very very little. You can see it is very finely divided.

Depending on how much of the precipitant is added, the temp of the solution, how saturated the solution is, etc you will get different color solution, sometimes darker red, sometimes lighter. I am not sure why someone would apply heat, but if they did so, the precipitant would accumulate and create garbage on the sides.

One last thing I would like to mention. When this particular precipitate is added, under the right conditions, if there is excess acid present, it will cause a black bubbling on the top similar to what you might see if you add SMB to a solution of AR with unspent Nitric acid. That would account for the black dots around the upper part of the inside of the beaker in the video. This is what I suspect happened.

Someone dissolved a dirty or alloyed material in an AR solution that was made traditionally, being that the "artist" did not add as much nitric as needed, but instead made a traditional solution 1:3. Because the alloy was not dissolving fast enough, heat was applied to dissolve whatever they were attempting to dissolve. There was very very little gold actually involved, if we use my picture as an example it is most likely there is far less than a gram, or even half gram total. I am just guessing, but this seems to me to be the case. So while the solution was still hot, too hot to be adding a precipitant, hydroquinone was added. Because there was too much nitric acid still in solution, because they used a 1:3 ration instead of only adding as much as was needed, when the hydroquinone was added, it reacted with the Nitric acid and bubbled up black. Because the beaker was still too hot, it made a gunky mess on the sides of the beaker, and the black dots on the side of the baker, are actually where the hydroquinone foamed up to. Because the gold was so finely divided, air bubbles were able to form within the finely divided gold matrix. As more and more finely divided gold collected, the precipitated gold would weigh heavy enough to drag it down to the bottom of the beaker. Because we are forced to watch this process through dirty glass, it causes the bubbles to look like shiny gold, or silver but this is only because the poster has suggested this is what it is. If we were to look at this video not thinking it to be shiny gold being precipitated or transmuted from a solution, we might think something totally different.

In any case, that's my own two cents. I have seen this reaction enough times to be almost certain that this is what it is, however I may not be correct in my assumptions and must be fair in stating I could be utterly wrong. But it does seem to be the most plausible in my mind.

The white material that looks to be something crusty, could be residual from makeup, as hydroquinone is an ingredient commonly found in makeup, and might be the source for the video posters precipitant. Although I cannot be sure because I use lab grade hydroquinone.

Scott
 

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