Can i clean and mix these into one lot?

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IntelGold

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Sep 9, 2012
Messages
117
Location
UK
As title states i have a few different kinds of gold which i want to get as pure as possible. Can i mix them together. I guess i would need to refine/clean futher. Can someone tell me the best way of doing this.
Heres a pic of the products in question.
IMG_0780.JPG
The Bits where a larger lump which was just melted from foils, no bleach and then i decided to cut them up into smaller pieces to see if i could get them purer. The Button was my first attempt at cleaning with hcl, bleach and then washs. I know this is around the 23k mark. Last is some foils i done today which have just been cleaned with hcl. Can i consolidate all my gold into one lump of clean near .999 as possible gold.
Hope this does not seem like a silly question but i dont want to mess it up.
Thanks for any help and look forward to your responses.
Thanks.
 
you will need a nitrat of some sort. HCl and bleach wont work with the large pieces. you can use sodium nitrate and HCl then precipitate it. Wash with HCl then dissolve it with HCl and bleach. precipitate it wash well and melt.

Eric

That bag looks like it might be a lot of gold :lol:
 
Thanks Eric. I have a litre of Nitric but really dont like using it. So i can put the whole lot in nitric/hcl in one go and precipitate as normal with SMB? Ill have a go in the next few days. Hope it goes well...Fingers Crossed.
 
First put your gold from fingers in HCl and add small amounts of nitric. then after they have been dissolved add your small pieces and dissolve them. lastly heat your solution to about 100F and add your biggest piece to use up the leftover nitric keep adding small amounts of HCl when all the nitric is used up you may have a small piece left over add it to other stuff later precipitate your gold wash and re-dissolve in HCl bleach and precipitate again wash then melt. and enjoy.

Eric
 
Thanks again Eric. Are you saying dont use urea and let the last big button use up the nitric instead? Could i not just use a pinch of urea to be sure. I dont want it redissolving when i want to precipitate, i heard it can happen.
Cheers.
 
You can do what you want but if you are careful on the addition of nitric you won't need the urea. the big button will use it up. just make sure you have HCl in the solution to react with the excess nitric.

Eric

Urea should be used as a fertilizer or for making hard cider :p
 
Thanks, One last question, what sort of quantity of hcl and nitric should i use. I guess i wont need much? Should i keep adding hcl constantly when on the heat?
Cheers.
 
You can't cause too many problems with hydrochloric unlike nitric. I'd suggest putting your material into a beaker and cover with about an inch of hydrochloric and heat, slowly add small amounts of nitric only adding more when all reaction has ceased, if after an addition of nitric you get no reaction add a little more hydrochloric and see if you get any reaction if not add the button to your solution, if you want to know yields then just weigh it before and after. If you want more accurate amounts for the acids GoldSilverPro has posted them many times.
Good luck.
 
Incineration is a good pre-step for oils and carbonous materials.

(Calculate the amount of base metals and gold or other valuable metal when you can to determine how much acids are needed, if you are working in situations where you cannot calculate the amounts, use small additions, with heat, leaving some material left un-dissolved after solution is concentrated can insure you have used up the acid added).


GSP and other forum members, have worked out the numbers of how much nitric acid to use to dissolve silver or base metals, there are a few variations but they are all fairly close, the one I use is:

1.2ml 70% HNO3 + 1.2ml per gram of silver
(Copper takes 3.4 times as much)
4.15ml 70% HNO3 +4.15ml H2O
(one gram of copper will cement 3.4ml of silver from AgNO3 solution)


Hoke’s book gives us the amount of aqua regia to dissolve a troy ounce of gold, as one fluid ounce of 70% HNO3 and four fluid ounces of 32% HCl
From this we get:
118ml 32% HCl + 29.5ml 70%HNO3 to dissolve a troy ounce of gold.
3.8ml 32%HCl + 0.95ml 70%HNO3 to dissolve each gram of gold.


(Calculate the amount of base metals and gold when you can to determine how much acids are needed)

Remove silver and base metals from your gold before dissolving it.

As stated earlier HCl in excess cause no problems, and you can measure out amount needed and add it to the gold,
(Heating now can also let you see if you may have some base metals that did not get completely dissolved, or were left from previous treatment, silver chloride would be white copper would color acid green in this case I would raise the heat, lower it, but keeping it very hot let gold settle, siphon off HCl and replace it with clean HCl), HCl is fairly easy to get and cheap enough, let any liquid you decant settle in a cooling jar just in case you carried some values with the decanted solutions (I use a suction tool and a pipette to move liquid).

The nitric would be measured out amount calculated to dissolve the amount of gold you have, I measure it out in a small clean vessel, adding it only in proportions, to the heated HCl and gold, at first I may give it a larger portion of acid, and slowing additions down as solution concentrates, pipette the nitric in a drops at the later stages.

(As solution gets more concentrated I will add a little H2SO4 in drops, this will help form insoluble lead sulfate later, and can help from mistakenly evaporating solution to salts, it also helps in the process later of vaporizing off unused HNO3 from solution).

I try to use heat (not boiling) to drive off water from the acids as the gold dissolves, and as I add my nitric acid, my goal is to have the solution concentrated as the gold dissolves, and when most all of the gold is dissolved my last drops of HNO3 are added to finish the job, and just a little heat to consume the HNO3 and finish dissolving the gold, as the acids concentrate they get stronger, (adding acid we are also adding water that is involved in the acid), there is also a point where boil-over is likely to possibly happen where the acids concentrate to a certain point (azeotrope) and try to come out of solution all at once boiling the solution over in a foam of gases trying to escape, so watching for this reaction and lowering heat as solution is concentrated (you will see small bubbles begin to form around the rim of acid at this point lower heat for gases to escape more slower, after you are past this point heat can be raised again), after almost all gold is dissolved the acid is concentrated and the last drop of nitric is added to finish dissolving the gold it only takes a little time to vapor off any unused HNO3, because we would not have more than a few drops,

Also do not keep adding HNO3 trying to dissolve materials that will not dissolve or if to hard leave them for the next batch (or if platinum or some other hard to dissolve metal save for another process, basically do not keep using nitric acid to try and dissolve the sand or other not easily dissolved metal, and ending up with excess acid.

Now the gold is dissolved or almost all of it, if done correctly you should end up with very little to no excess nitric in solution.
dealing with excess nitric before precipitating gold. (leaving a little undissolved gold for next time, can insure you used up all of the nitric), (another option add a gold button to use up excess nitric Harold's trick), (and then there is eliminating nitric with sulfamic acid GSP trick), (and the three evaporation method taught in Hoke's book), Personally I use a combination of several of these methods.

Now the solution is concentrated I concentrate a little further the solution changes from yellow to orange and becomes almost a red orange color, add just a little HCl (this is 68% water and 32% HCL) so the acid also dilutes the solution this water will need vaporized off before the acid concentrates and pushes out any remaining HNO3, so we do not need much HCL, just enough to wet solution a little, concentrate back to thick reddish orange syrup, and do this one more time again, this here will insure most all of the nitric is either used or evaporated off, here I will turn off heat on the concentrated solution and let solution cool a little, and settle anything that would not dissolve, when solution is clear, I use a suction tool and a pipette to remove the liquid from the undissolved material, to a clean vessel, which I add about four time the amount of water, I will also add a small splash of HCl, letting this sit overnight in the cold night air, covering the vessel with a watch-glass cover to let silver chloride precipitate and any lead salt.

If I suspect any unused nitric I will use a little Sulfamic acid (I use grout cleaner from home depot, I also only do this on my first refine), the Sulfamic not only will destroy any unused HNO3, but will also form sulfuric acid in the reaction helping to precipitate lead sulfate.
The after sitting over night or longer, solution is again decanted and filtered to a clean vessel, before using my reagent to precipitate the gold, this gold is then washed per Harold's washing procedure before being dissolved and refined again, the second refining is always much easier than the first, and improves the gold making it well worth the effort.

Keep the urea to fertilize your grass, a few prills can be saved to test for nitric in some situations, but basically urea in my opinion should be used as fertilizer not in refining gold, the ammonium compounds it can create in solutions could become dangerous in some situations, or have adverse reactions with PGMs if you are dealing with them in solution, Urea it is just not needed in my opinion.
 
Thanks to everyone who helped me on this one. :)
I have over the last few days learnt alot about the reactions of Nitric. I have done every step very carefully and now have a 5 litre flask of filtered twice gold liquid. I am leaving it over night to air and will percipitate tomorrow. Looking forward to this one as it should be a good amount. But you never know. The finger foils where 5.7 grams, the button 2 grams and the bits where 2 grams. I dont think i am going to get 9.7 gram but would be happy with 6-7 grams. Only time will tell. Ill post a pic of the finished product. Thanks again. :)
 
Finished this lot yesterday and ended up with 7.4 gram of Powder. I am going to do some more processing and add the powders together. I will then clorox the 2 lots and clean for a second time. Should give me some fairly pure gold i hope.
Thanks for all the help guys.
 

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