Can someone explain what is happening please.

[austexdude]

Hi...

OK, I am trying to learn various things with some safe experiments kind of getting an introductory.

So, this is what I did.

120 in, 7.5 volt out transformer

Mixture of;

1/2 pint white vinegar
1/2 tsp salt
dash sugar

negative hooked up to a piece of stainless
positive on a strip of copper

solution turns blue
copper plates on the stainless
copper formed a big ball which I scraped off and dried into copper powder

Here is the questions I have;

As the copper is dissolving, it is turning into white crystals first.

What are those white crystals and what is the exact chemical process happening here?

How do the salt and sugar play into effect?

Also...what are the 2 gasses bubbling up from the stainless and the copper strip?

I know these are prob pretty simple questions for you experts but it was just some pre experimenting I was doing with safe stuff before I jump into getting more involved.

Thanks

 

[OMG]

Sounds like you are using AC current, so the anode and the cathode switch positions every 1/60th of a second.. If you want a definite one directional reaction you will need to use a DC power source.
As the copper is dissolving it is turning into copper chloride (CuCl) - the white powder. When you have a chloride in your electrolyte (which you do - sodium chloride - the table salt). The chloride ion will almost always migrate to the anode and almost always form a compound with the anode. A copper anode will form CuCl, an iron cathode will form FeCl2. The stainless has other metals alloyed with it but is mainly iron.
The gas coming off will be hydrogen. Hydrogen almost always comes off the cathode.
What is happening is: when you dissolve the salt it becomes ions in the water (Na+ and Cl- ions). The water is H and OH. The H gets pulled to the cathode and the Cl gets pulled to the anode (keep in mind your anode and cathode switch positions every 1/60th of a second). Generally from the NaCl and H20 you are getting CuCl and NaOH with the H (hydrogen) going up as gas. But, there will be many side reactions going on as well (such as oxidizing the NaCl into NaClO, NaClO2, and NaClO3). The blue stuff will probably be copper hydroxide (the result of the reaction between the CuCl and NaOH that you are creating)

* The CuCl also naturally decomposes itself slowly to CuCl2 and Cu - which will give the electrolyte a green color if the CuCl2 is not removed.

The stainless is getting plated in copper because iron would rather be dissolved than copper. (copper is more 'noble' than iron so doesn't like being dissolved). The reaction happening is Fe + CuCl2 -> FeCl2 + Cu. So the copper is switching places with the iron on the stainless electrode, and the iron becomes dissolved as FeCl2.

Answering your other questions: I doubt the sugar is doing anything in the reaction. (im not sure though). The vinegar is an acid and would dissolve iron as well, but I doubt there is enough of it to do much.

When you experiment with electrolysis, you can't consider things safe. This is because you are using electricity to push reactions that wouldn't occur naturally. Just look up sodium perchlorate (you are making it in your current setup).
Its not as much fun, but you should download a chemistry book and read all the basics. Then also check wiki for all the chemicals and chemical combinations you might be making by using electrolysis.
I took a more hands on approach to learning stuff, and I'm regretting not just reading more of the basics first. I wouldn't have wasted so much time doing stuff I could have read about in a couple of paragraphs.

 

[butcher]

GREAT answer OMG.
yes reading and finding the answers in pargraphs,
but I feel if you are looking for the answer to a problem seems to help me understand and learn better, not to say shouldnt study it first,expierience is the best teacher, and as OMG so well answered you could be making
some very dangerous things. study and expieriment and have fun doing both, if you want to make your transformer DC (direct current ) where current only travels in one direction .you add a diode to one of the wires, they are usually the black round thingy with a white stripe on one end on circuit boards, they work live a check valve does for water, letting electricity (current)travel only one way, get the biggest one you can at radio shack, say 6 amp, put in on one wire of your transformer then the end with the white stripe goes to your anode the positive of your cell the metal you are disolving, if can get fancy and build a simple full wave rectified filtered direct current power supply with just a transformer, 4 diodes(or bridge rectifier), and a capacitor, look up power supply circuits next time you are board and looking for something to do.

 

[austexdude]

wow thanks!

This will give me a basis to get started...

I figured I would mess with copper at first, learning various methods before I actually start messing with any PMs

Actually, I will not be doing an PM stuff, except for collecttion, for the next few years.

In the past 6 months I have been able to save up about 2 lbs of heavily gold plated pins, several OZs of silver, 30 lbs of clean copper, brass, and aluminum.

What I plan to do it this...(and someone please guide me if I am wrong)

I know this economic downturn is going to last a long time, at LEAST 5 years, maybe 10, before the next bubble starts to inflate. It will most likely not be a U$ Dollar bubble, but a North American Dollar bubble.

So...I save all the scrap I can get my hands on for the next few years. I plan to take it up a few notches in my collection process.

When I see the next bubble starting, I will cash in all my PM and copper, invest that and ride the bubble until it maxes out and then convert it back to physical PM before the next crash.

I suspect at the current rate of savings I could amass around $10,000 in the next 5 or so years...

Collecting PM and copper is like throwing money in savings that you never touch. If you don't cash it in, it just collects.

I will also collect aluminum and other metals but due to storage they will need to be turned in more often.

I am about to run a daily ad on to have people recycle their computers/electronics through me which should take it up a couple of notches.

I found old musical equip from the early 80s to have tons of gold like patch bays and old rack mounted recording parts.

Once again, thanks. I have a long time to learn the ins and outs so I am not in any rush or anything.

OH...don't be shocked if the US gov demands all gold be turned in for the new North American dollar...I would bury it and sell it on the black market later. Screw these fat cat big wigs who are scamming us into this north american union...

Don't ya just love the rationality here?

Instead of imposing tarrifs on China to force them to increase their standard of living and bring it up to our level, the elites decide to bring us down to their standards.

This simply will not do.

Oh BTW, I know some of you know that this whole things is a bunch of malarkey...by reading this forum I have realized that many of you know that 9/11 was an inside job, the whole war on terror is a hoax, and the government has gone totally insane.