Non-Chemical Copper mesh for cell

[nivrnb]

All,

Power supply for the smaller cell will be a 13.6 V, 6 A regulated. On the other thread Steve was calling for a

"In short the generic terms like cold, hot, and 12 v 10 A battery charger are more than accurate enough to get a cell operational and producing gold. If you need a more accurate assessment of the temperatures, then let me suggest these operating conditions for the hobbyist cell set up:"

It is getting close to lift off on the cell, I will use the smaller cell and after I have done a few pieces to see how it goes, will see I think I’m ready but will spend more time reading the great article on the other thread “Pic of my cell”.

nivrnb

 

[Geo]

i have alot of the same type of scrap and some of the longer connectors with plastic in the middle will snap apart in places and just push the plastic out. the square 'RF" connectors however is still a thorn in my side, ive taken a dremmel and cut one in half and the plating is all the way through BUT cutting each one is like skinning a bee for its wax. alot of effort for a little return. im running them as is but keeping them for later processing as soon as i figure out a way to get inside without all the effort. the power supply you have is ok but you can add a amp meter on the positive side. i like watching the amps because when the material is almost done it may not show bubbles on the surface but if its still pulling amps there is still gold present being stripped. amp meters are cheap and easy to add, it has two connectors. the positive side goes to one connector and the other connector goes to the cell.

 

[nivrnb]

Update,

Geo, I have an amp clamp I am going to use with the power supply. I have to modify the the mesh, it should be low in the front. So I will just cut away the front of the mesh.

nivrnb

 

[qst42know]

I think your anode and cathode are far to close together. I expect you will be running high amps and overheat very quickly.

 

[nivrnb]

qst42know,

Thank you for the heads up, I will shorten the baskets, I can feel myself getting anxious about running the cell.

nivrnb

 

[zenophryk]

This is my first post, after much lurking and reading and oogling.

I decided my first project should be a cell. The construction is fairly simple, and I have all the materials. Instead of a basket made with mesh, I'm going to try some sheet copper, bent into a basketish form with maybe some holes on the bottom to help drain. Has anyone done that with any success?

I also want to come up with a clip to allow me to deplate fingers. Everyone says a cell is no good for fingers, likely because of the electrical connection needed on each one of the fingers. So I'm thinking about trying to make a wide clip that will make contact with a the front and back of the fingers, and at least maybe 2 inches wide. has anyone tried that yet?

So there is a whole lot posted on the how to build a cell, and run a cell. but I havn't seen too much in a step by step for what to do when you're done.
How do I know when to stop, how do I proceed afterwards?

-Zenopryk

 

[Palladium]

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8543&hilit=stripping+cell+clean+up

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=stripping+cell+clean+up

 

[dvdczar]

hello all ,
im new to the forum and a noob to your processes but while studying this cell and others heat seems to be a problem for you. Is it possible that instead of a water or ice bath which appears to be dangerous by what ive read, use a heat sink somewhat like whats used in beer making but form the heat sink from copper tubing and make it double as the framework for the mesh and a handle , attach rubber tubing so as to make the basket more easy to handle then to the cold water faucet with another hose back to the drain, its also possible to instead use a recirculating pump and a water chiller but thats more expense. anyway with what im learning here in the forum id just like to make any contribution i can

 

[Geo]

the reaction of concentrated sulfuric on copper is very slow but it still reacts especially as the temperature rises among other factors.copper tubing is a poor barrier to use between concentrated sulfuric acid and water as the tubing will eventually fail.water when introduced to concentrated sulfuric will not mix immediately and droplets will settle to the bottom and then react with the acid,the result is it will flash boil and the steam explosion will blow hot sulfuric acid every where.its a nice concept and the thought process looks good but i would advise not using copper tubing filled with water in a sulfuric stripping cell.

 

[Amber]

This is my first post, after much lurking and reading and oogling.

So there is a whole lot posted on the how to build a cell, and run a cell. but I havn't seen too much in a step by step for what to do when you're done.
How do I know when to stop, how do I proceed afterwards?

-Zenopryk

Hello,
There are a few good threads about processing. Look around some more, I wouldn't want to state something from memory inaccurately. I keep notes on the threads I find that apply to the processes I want to try. I did find a post that indicated running the cell for 24 hours or less then process. Another bench mark is a given amount of grams of gold in the cell.

I did want to share that I decided to weigh each batch before I process it and after. My hope is this will give me a good estimation on what is in the cell. This number will be useful when the batch is ready to go to AR. It will help to use close to the right amount of nitric acid in the AR. Excess nitric is undesirable when you want to drop the gold out of solution.

A second tip I have to share: I am running GP jewelry and was advised to check for silver under some of the vintage stuff. Great advice. I didn't find any silver, but I found two pieces that were 14KT. They weren't marked, so I had them in the scrap pile to de-plate. When they came out still gold, I figured they had bad contact and I put them in again. Still shiny gold? Hmmm, the cell didn't work on the karat pieces and I tested with acid to confirm. Now they are in the correct jar.

Bests,
Amber

 

[Geo]

I did want to share that I decided to weigh each batch before I process it and after. My hope is this will give me a good estimation on what is in the cell. This number will be useful when the batch is ready to go to AR. It will help to use close to the right amount of nitric acid in the AR. Excess nitric is undesirable when you want to drop the gold out of solution.

the only flaw to this that i can see is not just gold that is stripped but also nickle and some other substrates even copper.if you weigh a batch and process and then weigh the waste metal you may have a proximate weight of metal in the cell but not necessarily the amount of gold. given the fact that mill spec can be different for the exact same piece from part to part according to the costumers needs without an X-ray machine to test thickness of gold plate theres really no way of knowing how much gold can be in any one batch.this poses no big problem for what you have described unless you make your AR before the process.a better way of using AR for something like this is to add the prescribed amount of hcl and add nitric in small increments as needed untill all the metal is dissolved.and as a side note heat the hcl before you start adding the nitric to ensure the reaction has run its coarse before adding more nitric.

 

[Amber]

Thanks Geo. I was unaware of your tip to heat the hcl before adding nitric. I will do that. Do you add the nitric while it is still hot, or do you let it cool again?

Yes the weight is an approximate. I had no idea where to start and I read some of the spread sheets for calculating plated material. I found estimating surface area and plating thickness to be beyond practical. So I thought the difference between "weight in" and "out" as a simple starting point. I also figure there will be losses. As careful as I rinse, I think not every drop is staying where I would like it. I plan on keeping the records through the end. With each batch I process, the numbers will have more meaning when I can tie it to a button of a given size as the result.

I have only started putting it all together and I really appreciate all the comments along the way to make sure I don't spend too much time down the wrong path. If I hadn't found this forum, I would not have tried the cell.

 

[Geo]

add the nitric to warm solution SLOWLY in small increments.the warmer the solution the more vigorous the reaction will be.you don't want a run away reaction and a possible boil over.cool solution may show a slight reaction on the addition of nitric and make you think you need to add more and before you know it you have added too much.warm solution tends to have the reaction happen faster and more instantaneous.if you are watching over the reaction you will see a definite start to the reaction and a definite end of the reaction (relatively speaking).look after each reaction and make sure theres still metal to be dissolved before adding more nitric.

 

[Manoel]

Please

I am a newbie and I am trying to understand how this electrical process works... however, I have a question... how to filter/extract the gold from you acid solution ?

Sorry for this newbie question!

Regards!
Manoel

add the nitric to warm solution SLOWLY in small increments.the warmer the solution the more vigorous the reaction will be.you don't want a run away reaction and a possible boil over.cool solution may show a slight reaction on the addition of nitric and make you think you need to add more and before you know it you have added too much.warm solution tends to have the reaction happen faster and more instantaneous.if you are watching over the reaction you will see a definite start to the reaction and a definite end of the reaction (relatively speaking).look after each reaction and make sure theres still metal to be dissolved before adding more nitric.

 

[nivrnb]

Manoel,

Here is some info form Philddreamer on another post. : ) nivrnb

Re: my first button

"Black Powder from Cell

When your cell is full you should:
1. Let all the black powder settle
2. Pour off the bulk of the concentrated sulfuric acid. Don't worry about the small amount of residual black powder that is in the acid that is poured off as you can get it on the next batch.
3. The remaining acid with the bulk of the black powder in it should be slowly added (let it cool before adding more) to five or six times it's volume of water.
4. Stir this very well and allow to settle again.
5. Siphon off the colored solution. Repeat this process until the wash is no longer colored.
6. Test a few drops of the rinse water with a drop or two of 3% unscented clear household ammonia, if the rinse water turns blue when the ammonium hydroxide is added, copper is still present and more rinsing is required.

7. Dissolve the black powder with AR or HCl-Cl and proceed as typical for these processes.
The concentrated acid that was poured off is used in your next cell run as is. Hot concentrated acid is very dangerous, so exercise extreme caution when handling it. Never add water to concentrated sulfuric acid/powder mixture, add the acid/powder slowly to the water instead.
Steve"

Daveedo, the information is here. Check it out.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=9473&p=109846&hilit=sulphuric+cell#p108380

Phil

 

[philddreamer]

That information was posted by Lazersteve & I saved it & use it when I run my sulphuric cell. I shared it with Daveedo de other day.

Niv, you did good sharing it with Manoel!

Manoel, take care & be safe!

Phil

 

[nivrnb]

Phil,

Thanks for the comment! I have been reading about posting video's from Noxx and wanted to repost this video of a cell in action from youtube. I beleive metalicmario posted this and just wanted to give them props.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCro6V_RsTo&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[philddreamer]

Niv, if I'm not mistaken, "metalicmario" is "goldenchild" in our forum.
Thanks for sharing Niv.

Nice video Mario! 8)

Phil

 

[Bissel9]

can anyone tell me the chemical mixture used in a sulfuric cell?

 

[Harold_V]

can anyone tell me the chemical mixture used in a sulfuric cell?

Simple. Concentrated sulfuric acid. Nothing more.

Harold