Could really use some help on a few things.

[slim333]

I have a few basic questions. First the filters themselves not the process; I think I am having a issue.
As I am doing my washes my gold powder is going though to the second and third filters and I fear I am losing fair amounts of gold. I am folding them correctly in a fluting pattern and it seems as though to much power is passing though. I know this is why we keep them and for the next incineration but aside from the Whatman #2 filters Harold has mentioned is there a specific type that incurs less powder seeping though?

I have two other issues that I am somewhat confused on; Those being: Dissolving my gold fill foils/powder in HCl and Clorox is there is a specific ratio for the amount of each to the weight of my foils/powder. ( I just covered slightly with the HCL and added the Clorox slowly till all the foils were gone then when cooled precipitated it worked but there must be a ratio??

Lastly when I got done with my washes I went to glaze my crucible and found that I must be doing something wrong I used many teaspoons of borax to get the dish glazed and when I was finished not only did my button get stuck but I found small bits of my gold in the glaze. I need to know how to properly glaze my crucible or is it because I used the wrong one? I used a small 3' Ceramic Crucible the brown one's.

These few things are really messing me up and I need clarification so it can be done properly.

 

[butcher]

I rarely filter any solution that has not been allowed to sit long enough to let anything insoluble settle out, and then I will decant and filter the clear solution.

Some of the very fine particles can go through filters, or can be trapped in a filter.

Save your filters to process later.

Sometimes recycling the filtered solution, back through the same filter will catch these small particles the second time, as the filter pore begins to clog with insoluble salts.



I think it is a bit hard to come up with a ratio for the amount of gold dissolved in a certain measure of HCl/NaClO (bleach), normally you add the acid then the bleach in increments (this will take more HCl acid than you need to form gold chloride than when we are using the aqua regia method, because with the bleach we are neutralizing the acid with each addition of bleach), several factors come into play, water volume, the fact that the bleach is basic and neutralizes the acid, the chlorine gas that escapes at such different temperatures the process can be done at, formation of salts from the hydroxide and acid reaction and so on.

You do not need spoons of borax, a small pinch is much more than you need, get the dish red hot sprinkle the borax on the dish like salt (barely salt the dish), let it melt onto the dish, and spread out over the dish like melted butter, when done it should just look like a wet glazed dish, no extra flux.

 

[kadriver]

I have a few basic questions. First the filters themselves not the process; I think I am having a issue.
As I am doing my washes my gold powder is going though to the second and third filters and I fear I am losing fair amounts of gold. I am folding them correctly in a fluting pattern and it seems as though to much power is passing though. I know this is why we keep them and for the next incineration but aside from the Whatman #2 filters Harold has mentioned is there a specific type that incurs less powder seeping though?

I have two other issues that I am somewhat confused on; Those being: Dissolving my gold fill foils/powder in HCl and Clorox is there is a specific ratio for the amount of each to the weight of my foils/powder. ( I just covered slightly with the HCL and added the Clorox slowly till all the foils were gone then when cooled precipitated it worked but there must be a ratio??

Lastly when I got done with my washes I went to glaze my crucible and found that I must be doing something wrong I used many teaspoons of borax to get the dish glazed and when I was finished not only did my button get stuck but I found small bits of my gold in the glaze. I need to know how to properly glaze my crucible or is it because I used the wrong one? I used a small 3' Ceramic Crucible the brown one's.

These few things are really messing me up and I need clarification so it can be done properly.

Hello:

Someone (Harold I think) told me that there is no good reason for trying to filter out suspended gold.

I am assuming that the reason you are trying to filter out the suspended gold is because you need (or want) the refined gold right away and don't have the time to wait for it to settle completely.

This post sounds nearly identical to one of mine when I first started refining. It took me a while, but at the urging of experienced forum members, I was able to make myself allow the powder to settle completely (overnight if need be) before proceding.

However, there are some situations where "time is of the essence" and I don't have time to wait until the next day to allow it to settle.

If I don't have time to wait then I just get a large container (I used a 3 liter iced tea jar) and dump all the liquid and susequent washing liquid containing any suspended gold into the 3 liter jar. Then I set that jar aside and allow it to settle for as long as needed until all the suspended gold has settled completelty.

This allows me to procede with the main batch.

Once settled, I carefully siphon off the clear wash liquid from atop the settled gold in the 3 liter jar, and transfer the gold powder to my gold flask.

My "gold flask" is a 1000ml erlynmeyer with ground glass stopper. I keep a dilute solution of aqua regia in this flask specifically for recovering small amount that get left over from time to time.

Some of the fine gold powder will remain in the bottom of the 3 liter jar no matter how thorough I am at rinsing it out. To get it out I add a little dilute aqua regia (only about 1 or 3 ml) and the gold promply dissolves and I rinse everything into my gold flask.

I save the flask and refine it after it gets full - like a mini stock pot.

If you do end up with some gold in a filter paper then you could do this;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlozdhFuExk[/youtube]

I hope this is helpful to you.

kadriver

 

[slim333]

awesomenesshttp://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/posting.php?mode=reply&f=49&t=16600#
I think I was just obsessing over the general powder that is left in the filters for later. I went and glazed a dish and it did only take a very little bit. Thank's

 

[Drowningbodacius]

i also let every solution settle for 24 hours before decanting. i do not filter anymore as i had this same problem with my powder. i now decant using progressivly smaller pipettes and then evaporate all liquids off of my powders by placing my beaker on a hot plate or infront of a floor heater. this way i dont have to deal with the filter paper at all other then filtering insolubles out of auric chloride before precipitating

 

[kadriver]

I have two other issues that I am somewhat confused on; Those being: Dissolving my gold fill foils/powder in HCl and Clorox is there is a specific ratio for the amount of each to the weight of my foils/powder. ( I just covered slightly with the HCL and added the Clorox slowly till all the foils were gone then when cooled precipitated it worked but there must be a ratio??

I'll bet that there is, but the way you accomplished your dissolution (cover with HCl and add clorox slowly) is a good way to do it.

HOWEVER, before you dissolve the foils and powder in HCl/clorox, you SHOULD pour everything through a filter paper to trap the foils and ellusive gold powder in the filter paper - according to Harold, this is one of the few times (processing gold filled scrap) that your gold should go into a filter paper.

Plus, there is usually some silver in the filtrate in the form of silver nitrate. The last time I did gold filled I got a little over 8 grams of pure gold from 202 grams of gold filled scrap (selected each piece by hand for the batch to get a high yield). After filtering out the foils and powder, there was about 10 grams of silver in the solution, I cemented the silver out of the clear blue filterate with a coil of copper wire.

Gold filled scrap does carry a recoverable amount of silver - something your refiner does not want you to know because most do not give credit for any silver from either gold filled or karat gold - but there are probably some exceptions.

The reason for getting all the foils and powder into a filter paper is so you can INCINERATE the foils, powder, and filter paper. Here is a post from a while back that shows the process with photos;

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=11945&start=160

Back then I would remove the filter paper that contained all my foils and powder from the funnel, then I placed the filter paper in a corningware casserole dish (I find corningware dishes all the time at my local thrift store) and added lighter fluid and ignite. You can also use charcoal starter fluid.

But I have found that the best way (for me) is to get the filter paper with all the foils and powder out of the funnel and into a corningware casserole dish.

Then I set the flame of a regular propane torch to about 1/2 inch long. Then I slowly apply the flame to the filter, foils and powder. I take my time and make sure everything gets heated to redness, but not to melting point.

Incinerating the material in this manner converts some metals (such as tin) to a compound that won't dissolve easily, so it will get trapped in the filter paper and left behind from your clean gold chloride. Incinerating does increase the amount of gold you can recover, but I am unclear as to why - drag down probably.

I once did a batch of gold filled scrap - 450 grams - but I only got 7 grams of pure gold (very low yoeld). Why? because my anheusers kicked in and I completely forgot to incinerate. I went straight to dissolving the gold after dissolving all the base metals in dilute nitric acid.

When I glaze a melt dish, I use an oxy/acet totch and apply just "pinches" of borax until the inside of the dish is completely cover in borax glaze - usually takes about 1/2 tablespoon of borax or less - washed hands contributes to a nice clean borax glazed dish.

Again, I hope this helps you.

kadriver