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Dental Gold---Platinum?

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agpodt77339

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
89
Location
Massachusetts
I recently bought a dental bridge that is silver in color, and I need some help determining what it is made out of. The metal is not as soft as gold. I rubbed it on my testing stone and tested it with 18k, 22k, and platinum testing acid. None of the acids dissolved it. When I tried to rub the streak off my stone, it would not completely come off, and is still visible. I have not ever tested or handled any platinum, so I am not sure if this actually is platinum. Also, I am not sure if dental bridges are ever made out of this high of platinum content. This item is non-ferrous. Are there some types of stainless steel dental allows that cant be dissolved?

Thanks,
Chris
 
Hmm...all evidence points to it being platinum. Harold or Chris would be better suited to field this question as they have extensive experience processing dental material.

I'm assuming it's Pt.
Personally, I would roast it and look at the surface for any oxidation, then perhaps HCl and see if there is any color change upon warming. If not, perhaps try cautiously adding an oxidant like nitric or hydrogen peroxide.

Stainless will oxidize with a flame taken to it.
 
Unfortunately, I do not have a torch or any acids (besides my testing acids). I want to try refining, but I am currently just buying gold and selling it to ARA.

Does anyone know if ARA processes dental scrap? If so, do they pay for all the metals in the scrap, and what %'s do they give for each metal? If nobody knows, I will call them sometime and post what they pay just incase anyone else is interested.
 
They do process dental gold, but they will only pay you for the gold unless you send in enough of it that the silver adds up to more than an ounce. They do not pay a dime on palladium, and their platinum is not done in house--they pay 80% on Pt.

Worst comes to worst, do a density test!

Lou
 
Thanks for the replies Lou,

I will try finding the density, but my scale only goes to .1 grams, and I have no equipment to measure the water besides the scale. My results wont be very accurate, but maybe it will give me some idea of the density.
 
This one is a no-brainer. It isn't likely to be of value. If it is a rather bluish white color, it isn't.

It is not common to find dental appliances made of platinum, although they are not unheard of. Full platinum crowns are somewhat more common, but they, too, are scarce. You may also encounter porcelain overlays on platinum, again, not commonly. Platinum has almost always been valued higher than gold, and is far more difficult to cast. For that reason, you aren't likely to encounter much of it.

The fastest and easiest test is to try to bend the material. If it's in the platinum group, it will bend. If it snaps like a brittle twig, although offers considerable resistance before snapping, it's not worth owning.

The majority of white appliances are a high temperature alloy. You can ascertain if that's what you have by the break test, then if you are still confused, put a small piece in a beaker along with a few drops of dilute nitric acid and HCl (AR). The resulting solution will be green. If, by chance, it comes up brown, or any shade of brown/green combined, it will have value. If it refuses to dissolve, it may be platinum, and will slowly yield a yellow solution, turning darker with extended heating. Platinum in bulk is slow to dissolve. It will test (with stannous chloride) anywhere from light orange color through green/blue/brown, depending on the contents of the alloy, the concentration, the free acid content, and the state of your stannous chloride. If it has no value, the test specimen will yield no color reaction.

Be certain to perform the stannous chloride test. While color of solution is a fool-proof test, unless you've seen the solutions before, you may be confused, simple as it may sound.

Harold
 
I thought it may be platinum rather than that high temp alloy for this simple reason--what he describes is something similar. I bought (on ebay) a dental implant that the seller claimed was palladium for $50 It weighed about 8g or so after I'd removed all of the resin material. I gave it some heat--minimal color change. It was also stiff but bendable.

I put it into cold, conc. aqua regia and left it for a few days. Came back and it was hardly fazed but the solution took a golden-orange green. Turned out to be a Pd-Pt-Ni alloy.


Lou
 
Yep. Key is that it bends. I never encountered one that would bend that didn't have value---so it's actually a good test when you're in a hurry.

I have used AR to process a large assortment of dental appliances, taking advantage of the ability of the base metal content to eliminate themselves, leaving behind the values. It's faster than testing individual pieces and doesn't take all that much acid.

By using less than is required to dissolve everything, all of the appliances are placed in a beaker, then AR added. When it finishes the amount of work it can perform, the values cement on the remaining base metals, which dissolves them. The solution undergoes an obvious color change, starting out quite dark greenish brown, ending up a dark green color. It is then discarded after testing, and the process begun anew, although with even less AR. Eventually virtually all of the base metal has been discarded, leaving behind the values highly concentrated.

The above process is one of the rare instances where I've ever endorsed the use of AR to process values prior to the removal of base metals by some other means.

Harold
 
What do you mean by bend? Does it have to bend easily? I can bend it, but I need pliers, and it is somewhat difficult. After bending one corner a little, it broke, but the other end did not break after bending it (but I only bent this end 10-20 degrees). The thinner mesh-like part bends easier, but if I try to bend it to fast, it breaks.

I would not really call it a blueish white color. It is a very shiny silver color.

As I mentioned earlier, I do not have any acids, stannous chloride, or any other ways to test the material besides my small bottles of acid testing solutions (10k-22k +platinum). None of the acids would dissolve it.

Are there some alloys that do not contain precious metals, but still do not dissolve in the testing acids? If so, how could I distinguish these metals from the real thing?

Thanks for the help,
Chris
 
agpodt77339 said:
What do you mean by bend? Does it have to bend easily? I can bend it, but I need pliers, and it is somewhat difficult. After bending one corner a little, it broke, but the other end did not break after bending it (but I only bent this end 10-20 degrees). The thinner mesh-like part bends easier, but if I try to bend it to fast, it breaks.
The fact that it breaks is very telling. The platinum alloys are tough, but ductile to some degree. For example, a crown, even one that has a porcelain face, can be beaten flat with a hammer and it won't break. The material I referenced doesn't bend-----it snaps----much like you described.

I would not really call it a blueish white color. It is a very shiny silver color.
You may have to overlook my comment in that regard. Having worked as a machinist for my entire life, I talk about the colors of metals somewhat differently than others do. Stainless, primarily 300 series, for example (like nickel), is yellow. It may not look yellow to you, but to a person that has machined a lot of stainless and aluminum, they are distinctly different colors. Aluminum is very white, much like silver, although different. Stainless has a distinct yellow cast. Lead is blue. Can you understand what I mean?

Yes, the material in question would be white, but compared to a platinum alloy, it would be bluish white. When it breaks, the end will have a very fine grain structure. It breaks clean----it doesn't tear in the least.

It also does not react well with acids. I did all my tests in a fume hood with heated acids. You may not have the same success with cold processes.

As I mentioned earlier, I do not have any acids, stannous chloride, or any other ways to test the material besides my small bottles of acid testing solutions (10k-22k +platinum). None of the acids would dissolve it.
I suggest you get better equipped, or be prepared to buy a lot of valueless materials. If you can not discern the values from the wastes, you shouldn't be investing in anything.

Are there some alloys that do not contain precious metals, but still do not dissolve in the testing acids? If so, how could I distinguish these metals from the real thing?
Lets look at it like this. You're asking for a fast and easy way to sort the materials. If it was that easy, everyone would do it. I'm afraid you're going to have to pay some dues.

You should invest in a good book (Hoke comes to mind) and read about testing procedures. You should also acquire a spot plate and a few chemical reagents that will allow you to make tests. Nitric acid alone is very helpful, and you need not acquire a large amount. A couple fluid ounces in a small bottle will perform a huge number of tests, and allow you to become familiar with reactions.

Get Hoke's books and read them. A whole new world will open up for you.

Harold
 
Harold would I have to remove teeth part, or epoxys, would these cause problems with Aqua Regia, besides material I could filter, would rather not use HF if not nessasary,any suggestions?
 
Dental wastes were a fair part of my business, regularly provided by my jewelery manufacturing customers.

I dealt with the material with a hammer and anvil. It cleans up well when struck with a hammer. I broke all of the non-metallics away. If you're a bit squesmish and don't like handling the stuff, incinerate first. Be careful to do so only if you have a fume hood, or you do it in well controlled conditions. It's not uncommon for crowns to have silver amalgam underneath. Mercury is very much a part of this process.

Not being a chemist, I played it safe and excluded all non-metallics, regardless of the source. I avoided including any of them in my processing because I had no way of knowing if a given substance could form an exlposive compound.

Harold

edit: corrected spelling error. No change in content
 
Would an electronic tester like a Mizar M24 be able to determine the high-temp alloy from platinum?
Does anyone know if these testers are good, and do you think I it would be good to have one?
If I double tested everything with the Mizar and testing stone/acid, would that be accurate enough, or are there still alloys that can that can get past both tests?
 
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