Dodoldodol
Member
Can gold dissolve using h2o2 + vinegar + salt?
Dissolving gold
- Thread starter Dodoldodol
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Maybe, but why bother with Vinegar and Salt when plain HCl is much faster cleaner and better.
Creates a lot less waste too.
What are you dissolving, e-waste or ore?
Dodoldodol
Member
Ewaste, cuz h2o2 vinegar salt its cheaper than hcl
Vinegar and Salt creates a weak HCl in addition to the acetic acid itself.
The acetic part of the equation may create much more organic dangerous substances than HCl.
If you take into your calculation the amount of Acetic acid you need versus HCl, I'm pretty sure it will be cheaper with plain HCl.
What strenght Peroxide do you use?
Dodoldodol
Member
50%, oh ic ty dude, but can i know when gold dissolve in vinegar, what kind solution of gold?
Can you please repeat this in plain English!
And it will be some kind of Gold Chloride, why is that of interest.
It precipitates and cements like all other.
Can you elaborate your process a bit?
Dodoldodol
Member
I said thank you for your info and i think i understand a cost process dissolving gold using vinegar. you said about dangerous of vinegar, what kind of danger did make?. Refining using inorganic Like hcl or nitric can make skin burn, and NOx gas and chlorine gas will come out, where is the dangerous refining using vinegar?
The salts of Acetic acid which is an organic acid are more prone to interact with biology and such may be more poisonous.
An example is Lead Acetate which is also called Lead Sugar since it is a white powder tasting sweet, but it is very bad for any living being.
Using Vinegar will also produce much more waste solution since you need much more volume to get the same effect.
How much does a Liter of Muriatic/HCl cost in the hardware shop there, it is usually very cheap.
15-25% is plenty strong enough.
Have you studied the things we asked you to yet?
Especially Hokes book, safety and waste treatment?
How do you treat the e-waste before trying to dissolve the Gold?
Dodoldodol
Member
I already read, when refining finger ram or pin i using cucl2, refining ic chip i burn it then grind it then shake it in my mini shaker table, then prosess to aqua regia with drop by drop no3 then refining again using peroxide.
You have access to Nitric but not HCl?
Wow, that is the opposite of most of the world.
Dodoldodol
Member
I dont understand what u mean? Did u mean about refining with vinegar and i dont have access to hcl? Did i make that statement?i am asking about chemistry because i am not chemistry graduated and really bad at it, look at my question did i state that "i wanna refining using vinegar because i dont have access to hcl" and when i reply about cost did make sense i can access hcl?. But thank you for your information that really helped me.
Last edited:
First of all drop your text lingo, use proper language when discussing Chemistry.
So you do have access to HCl, and still want to use Vinegar and Salt???
That really do not make sense at all.
HCl and Peroxide 10% and up, will dissolve your Gold foils quite easily, for bond wires it is better with AR.
Another important reason to use real words and only standard chemical abbreviations is that many members use translators. Text lingo and other nonstandard abbreviations simply do not translate well. Do better.
Time for more coffee.
Time for more coffee.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
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You will be creating peracetic acid. Not recommended as it has a flash point of 104.9F/40.5C.
Janie
Hi,
Don`t need to be angry, all members are here to help.
But that works only if you are honest about what you want to do and how you want to do it.
Every process has its own advantages and disadvantages, we do not want to reinvent the wheel, allthough every now and then Heureka moments rise and new preocesses are found or old processes are optimized, but alltogether the tried processes are still the best.
That being said, if you have access to HCl use that, if you do want to stick with the idea of vinegar/salt/peroxide then do that. We are not around you to see what you are doing, but since you have stated that you do not have any chemical studies or background, if you encounter complications, you will ask other questions for which you will not accept answers from very experienced members and we will be back on square 1.
Please detail what material you have. (ore, e-waste, jewelery etc.)
How clean is your starting material. (solder and other impurities, sorted or not, etc.)
What have you done at this point.
What process do you want to use and what steps do you want to take to achive your goal.
How you are dealing with the created waste.
What is the equipment you are using.
Where are you performing these operations.
For every problem there is a solution, but to give you the best solution we need to know the cause of that problem and not the problem itself.
Communication is the key, being angry will get you nowhere.
Pete
Martijn
Well-known member
I doubt that reading this from wiki: Peracetic acid - WikipediaYou will be creating peracetic acid. Not recommended as it has a flash point of 104.9F/40.5C.
Janie
Production
Peracetic acid is produced industrially by the autoxidation of acetaldehyde:[2]O2 + CH3CHO → CH3CO3H
In the presence of a strong acid catalyst, such as sulfuric acid, acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide produce peracetic acid:[3]
H2O2 + CH3CO2H ⇌ CH3CO3H + H2O
However, in concentrations (3-6%) of vinegar and hydrogen peroxide marketed for household use, mixing without a strong acid catalyst will not form peracetic acid.
Anyway a flashpoint of 40 degrees C is not that dangerous. Just keep it below that temperature and keep ignition sources away.
And if ignition of vapors occurs, you will have a flame over a liquid that can be put out.
I think the threshold limit values and adverse health effects are of bigger concern, IF you actually create PAA
Safety[edit]
Peracetic acid is a strong oxidizing agent and severe irritant to the skin, eyes, and respiratory system. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency published the following Acute Exposure Guideline Levels (AEGL):[12]| eight-hour TWA AEGL | Definition | mg/m3 | ppm |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | The concentration at which the general population will experience transient and reversible problems, such as notable discomfort, irritation, or certain asymptomatic non-sensory effects. | 0.52 | 0.17 |
| 2 | The concentration that results in irreversible or other serious, long-lasting adverse health effects or an impaired ability to escape. | 1.6 | 0.52 |
| 3 | The concentration that results in life-threatening health effects or death. | 4.1 | 1.3 |
Martijn.
His hope was that it was cheaper than HCl, and thus could save some money.
For practical reasons I do not think so, it depends on the strength of both the Acetic acid and the Peroxide.
If he manage to get hold of glacial Acetic acid and 30-50% Peroxide it might work reliably and slow, maybe...
But I strongly doubt it will be cheaper then HCl/Peroxide or HCl/Bleach.
Waste treatment might be more complicated too, since Acetates might turn out to be more toxic than Chlorides.
Anyone here who knows the toxicity level of common Acetates versus Chlorides?
For practical reasons I do not think so, it depends on the strength of both the Acetic acid and the Peroxide.
If he manage to get hold of glacial Acetic acid and 30-50% Peroxide it might work reliably and slow, maybe...
But I strongly doubt it will be cheaper then HCl/Peroxide or HCl/Bleach.
Waste treatment might be more complicated too, since Acetates might turn out to be more toxic than Chlorides.
Anyone here who knows the toxicity level of common Acetates versus Chlorides?
The short answer should include the question: Which metal acetates and chlorides?
The short answer is NO. Perhaps with a high concentration of reagents, you will receive enough Cl(-) to dissolve gold for atomic spectroscopy
That's all.
