Dore bar???

[toadiesop]

My moms boyfriend did the cyanide process back in the 70's and 80's. He still has a dore bar that weighs at least 5 pounds (I'll post a picture later if I can) and it's not that big so I know it's either gold or lead weight.

Obviously I know it's impossible to ask you guys how much gold you think is in it but is there an average? I know lead was used in the cycanide process like a cell, but would the lead ever be melted into the bar?

I'm just trying to explain to my mom that they might be sitting on a few POUNDS of gold.

Isn't that an exiting thought. We're going to process this bar soon anyways so I'll be sure to take lots of pics.

I'm gonna shot it and then AR. Sound about right?

 

[Daniel]

Seems to be a pretty generic term with no standard...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dore_bar

http://www.gold.org/pr_archive/html/bars/Categ.htm#Dore

 

[toadiesop]

ok... PICTURE TIME!!!!

The last time I saw these I didn't know as much about gold as I know know. These things are AWESOME!!!! The second one is just gold sitting in slag.

Wish they were mine... :twisted:

Hahahaa!! But at least I'll get to process them. He's old school and he keeps telling me cyanide is the best way. Can't wait to show him the new ways to do things. 8)

 

[goldsilverpro]

Don't rush into this thing.

I think I would first drill the bars and try nitric on the drillings. Try to keep the slag out of the drillings. You can break the slag off first with a welder's chipping hammer or a steel rod. Wear safety glasses or a face shield when doing this. Weigh the drillings (5 to 10 grams) first and also weigh the remaining gold powder (rinse and dry) after using nitric. If hot nitric doesn't attack the drillings, you might really have a lot of gold.

It looks like there is a lot of silver and copper in the bar in the bottom photo. If the silver's over 10%, you'll never touch it with aqua regia.

Do some experimentation first. Let us know the results of the experiments and maybe we can help guide you in processing the whole lot. Go slow and think things out. Talk things out with us, step by step.

 

[Harold_V]

I'm at a loss to explain why lead would be involved with the cyanide process, one with which I am familiar, to be perfectly clear. Unless the recovered values were melted with litharge, there should be no lead present.

You need not alter the pieces in order to make a fast determination. You can determine a great deal about the metals with chemical reagents. Test the surface with nitric acid to see if you get any reaction. If you get rapid fuming and a color change, blue or green, you're dealing with a lot of base metal----most likely copper. Schwerter's test solution will determine the presence of silver-----a lack of a green reaction with bubbling and fuming will determine if the gold content is high------assuming there is gold present. There may not be. People have a way of hoping for the best when they know better.

Lead weighs just slightly more than half what gold does----copper is far less than half the weight, and silver and lead weigh about the same----so if these pieces aren't quite heavy, there may not be much gold present, if at all. Don't jump to conclusions.

Keep a clear head when talking gold------don't let greed taint your thinking. Recently, here in Washington State, a fraud was perpetrated with common yellow brass. Anyone that has been around gold would have known what it was-----but greed often blinds people.

No, shot then AR is not right. AR should not be considered a process for eliminating base metals, which should be first removed with nitric. Even if there is no silver present, why would you want to dissolve the base metals with the gold? You can't expect a clean precipitation from dirty solutions------no more than you should expect to get a clean car by washing it with muddy water. Drag down is always present------so make it a policy to eliminate as much of the base metals as is possible before dissolving gold. Always!

Test the piece(s) in question as I have suggested------then you'll know which course of action will serve you best. Not refining them is one of the real possibilities you should consider. If the owner is delusional, when you don't come up with the gold he "knows" is there, you'll forever be considered a crook. Remember-------these pieces may be the result of someone that knows nothing about recovery and refining----and may be totally worthless.

Harold

 

[aflacglobal]

Let me get in trouble here. Is there not a method that you can use to weigh the material in water then weigh it again in air, and it will give the estimated metal weight of the gold. Just weight !!!! Specific gravity !!!! ??????

Just asking.

Ralph

 

[goldsilverpro]

I doubt if you have Schwerter's solution - potassium dichromate and nitric acid. Instead, put a drop or two of nitric on and let it work for a bit. Then, add a drop of salt water or HCl. A white cloud indicates silver.

 

[toadiesop]

Thanks for the replies guys.

A few things I'll touch on first... About Harold saying me being labeled as a crook and the owner not knowing what's in it. Thanks for the concern but like I said, these belong to my mom's boyfriend, I've known him for several years now and I see him daily and talk gold all the time. He poured these bars himself but it's been so long that he did it he forgets what "batch" this was from. He knows what he's talking about but just doesn't remeber this specific bar.

And he will be right there with me as he's always used cyanide and wants to see these new processes. He's used nitric as well, it's just hard to find now. I told him about making it with sodium nitrate and sulfuric. I have two pounds of nitrate and he said he knows he has the flasks and the distiller setup in his warehouse somewhere so it looks like we're going to give that a go. It seems everything that one of us doesn't have the other does. I have the nitrate and he has the setup. I have the recipes and he's got the big ass gold bar! I don't have a place to do large quantities and he's got a 40,000 sq ft warehouse.

So like I said, this isn't a random guy that's just giving me this stuff to work with. Think of it as a "stepfather - stepson" bonding adventure. :lol:

Yes, the one on the bottom in the slag appears to have some silver in it but the top one looks very nice (and heavy, like i said 5+ pounds). I wish I had taken them outside in natural light to take those pictures. That slag item looks more yellow than it does in the picture. The flash messed with the coloring a little but yes, it's not as yellow as the bar.

Concerning cyanide and lead.... I remember watching a discovery channel show about the mint and making gold coins... maybe I confused the setups... but I swear I saw them using use lead sheets that attracted the gold... whatever, it's great to know that you wouldn't use lead in the process he did. I can ask him more if I get a hold of him today and I'll find out exactly how that bar came to be. He used to process a lot of tel-com equipment, that I know.

He knows how to assay and has a kiln, oxy-acetaline, molds, ect.. so this should be a learning experience for both of us.

Thanks for the info guys and like I said, I'll try to get a hold of him sometime today and pick his brain about everything he remembers of that bar.

This isn't a gold fever, WE'RE RICH!!! muaahahahahaa!!! kind of deal (although of COURSE that would be nice like I said in my first post) it's just he's been sitting on this stuff for decades and I've shown him that with this forum's help we can get every last atom of gold out and get it very pure without having to touch cyanide.

Should be a fun learning experience for both him and I and this forum.

Thanks again guys.

 

[goldsilverpro]

If he has an assay setup, I would definitely find out what's in the bar before trying to refine it. The contents of the bar could make a difference in the processing method. If he can't assay it, I would play with some drillings and try to get an idea of it's contents and how to process it. I would treat each bar separately.

In old tel-com equipment, the contact points were often pure palladium, although I doubt if much Pd would be extracted in a cyanide process.

Although Pt group could very well be present, it is difficult to assay. I would treat the bar as a gold/silver proposition when working with the drillings.

If you want to talk about this one on one, PM me and I'll give you my phone number.

 

[toadiesop]

Thanks goldsilverpro! I just may hit you up on that when we start. It's been a LONG time since he's done any assaying so we still need a few things like new crucibles, all the testing solutions, the chems that drop the other pgms (i only have SMB), ect.

It may be a week or so until we get going. Plus I just moved this week so instead of us being a few blocks away, now we're an hour and a half. So we're working on getting the few things we need and then we'll see when our schedules mesh.

Can't wait.