Droping my gold!

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cly9412

Active member
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
27
OK I have a solution that has 5 pentium pro's dissolved in poormans ar.I did'nt remove the base meatals.I have tested with SC and have a nice purple black color.I have added 2 teaspoons of urea and am going to set it to the side tommrow.That way the urea will have plenty of time to work.And yes I heated it to 160f befor adding urea.Tommrow I will heat again and check it with a few more prills of urea.Then filter.My question is I have read contrdicting things.So should I and my Smb when the solution is warm or a light boil.Then should I cut the heat of or just leave it warm for 24 hours while the gold is percipitating.And should I add the smb dry or mix with water first.I have allready add about 8 oz of water when reinceing my cpu's off.
Something else is I am using storm percipatate from shore and they say and gram per gram of dissolved metales not just how many gram of gold is in the solution so can someone help?
 
some people refine using what they have and what will work for one might not work for another.when i work with dirty solution the only thing im converned about is making sure all the gold comes down as i know i will be refining again.i would make sure theres no free nitric in the solution and then dilute with 50/50 water then i would make a solution of SMB and water using 100 ml water and all the SMB it will hold cold.i would add the SMB solution and stir,and stir for a few minutes.then i would test with stannous to see if the gold dropped.if not heat the solution and try again.if yes stir again and let it sit a few minutes and decant solution to another container careful not to pour out the solids.re-refine as needed.
 
Geo said:
some people refine using what they have and what will work for one might not work for another.when i work with dirty solution the only thing im converned about is making sure all the gold comes down as i know i will be refining again.i would make sure theres no free nitric in the solution and then dilute with 50/50 water then i would make a solution of SMB and water using 100 ml water and all the SMB it will hold cold.i would add the SMB solution and stir,and stir for a few minutes.then i would test with stannous to see if the gold dropped.if not heat the solution and try again.if yes stir again and let it sit a few minutes and decant solution to another container careful not to pour out the solids.re-refine as needed.
should I heat the solution on the first try.I've heard to do it both cold and hot?
 
ambient temps seem to work for me, i only heat if it gives me trouble.the biggest problem you can have is free nitric, the discussion of hot or cold was( in my opinion ) decided that heat isn't necessary to precipitate normally. like everything else there are exceptions and that's where experience comes in, knowing when to heat and when to do something else. for sure test to be sure you have gold in solution before and after the drop. i did a batch of ceramic chips in poormans AR exactly as i was told and still had a barren solution. i had no idea what happened to the gold, i could see it wasn't on the chips and stannous told me it wasn't in the solution.i decanted the solution into another pot and just on a whim added a little more hcl and 100ml of Cl to the chips and tested again and got an immediate deep purple/black color. looking back knowing now what i didnt then,i can tell the AR was spent before all the base metal was dissolved and the gold cemented out of solution as powder which dissolved with the hcl/cl with no problem.
 
Yes; If the base metals are not totally dissolved the gold will suspend colloidally. Adding fresh solution (AP, AR, A Cl) and heating makes the gold ionic. Colloids usually have a minute amount of gold ion coating their miniature surfaces that will react slightly with stannous chloride just giving a shade of purple, but no brown precipitate. Sometimes just one single drop of nitric acid or bleach is enough to convert the nano particles to dissolved ionic crystals. In your case, dissolved SO2 must be overcome to accomplish this. Whenever this problem happens again, heat the solution to remove the SO2, then add a drop or two of oxidizer. Consider this like driving a car down a narrow alley that dead ends. You have to back up to the entry point before you can go forward again. Before you ask: No, I don't know why the SO2 doesn't react with the surface ions. Maybe the nano surface ions are thionates????? Weeks ago I posted some pictures of nano-colloidal gold of different sizes. Check them out. 8) Dr. Poe
 
Good information Dr. Poe, thank you.

I would like to add my version, they way I see this.

Dirty solutions like base metals from electronics, hold gold in solution, either as fine powders or colloids, tin from solder, aluminum from capacitors can be a major problem, as it makes a gel that does not completely dissolve in solution, and if more than just traces, makes filtering virtually impossible, now add copper to this solution and any gold will try and cement out on copper and tin in solution, also forming colloids in this solution.

Add another problem from the circuit boards (on top of the many different types of base metals), like traces of oils, other chemicals, epoxy coatings, conductive greases, dirt and carbonous materials on circuit boards just really complicates a bad situation.

Colloids are of both polarity and repel each other helping to keep each other held in solution (not joining together and precipitating), holding values in this gel, that will not filter so making it very hard to deal with without you losing values, (and not even know that you are throwing away your gold you work so hard to find).

Since gold locked in this dirty solution can be reduced to metal, (valuable gold not precipitating, and not dissolved, but locked up in a suspended gel), stannous chloride will not test for gold as a metal, the gold has to be dissolved into solution for the stannous test to work, so you may test a solution and not get a reaction and assume your solution is barren and loose a good portion of your gold.

Depending on the state of your solution filtering can even be difficult using the Charmin plug, or other methods.

If you have not paid attention to learn how to process your materials to keep from forming this mess, here is one way that it might be dealt with.

Example: a gel solution of colloids that will not filter, with powders at bottom of vessel, (colloids are worse problem if solution is not highly acidic in a solution of metal salts)
Use funnel with Charmin plug, if toilet paper will not filter well, fiberglass insulation or even ceramic fiber wool can be used, decant the liquid from powders to filter liquid portion with Charmin plug, save powders to be incinerated, the liquid can be put in a boiling vessel, and concentrated sulfuric acid added (heat and high acid content helps to break colloids), boiling this solution will vapor off water and the more volatile acids, like nitric and then hydrochloric acid, as solution removes these other acids and solution concentrates in acidity the gold will begin to precipitate from solution, the base metals will become metal sulfate salts in solution if reaction is driven to completion, and colloids are broken.

Juan Manuel has written several posts on dealing with colloids, reading them is of great benefit.

Depending on conditions you may not have to complete full detail of above process to break the colloid.

Incineration has been covered many times, and Harold has explained these benefits in many posts reading them is very valuable.


Basically pre-treating your materials for processing, separating material types, mechanically separating base metals and other materials as much as possible, removing solder by mechanical and or chemical means, incineration of materials to remove carbons oils and trash, incineration can also assist in oxidizing base metals and making some like tin easier to wash out in pretreatment washing (base metal leaching steps). And removing base metals as much as possible before putting your values into solution, and then also refining a second time if needed to re-crystallize your metals before melting.

Learning better methods to process this scrap can save you money and a heck of a lot of troubles.

It takes many more hours dealing with a problem you created, when your trying to save time by not spending time on pretreatment of the materials.
 
I agree with Butcher, dirt, oils, carbonaceous material, and aluminium cause problems and should be dealt with prior to dissolution.
I want to clarify; colloids form of both negative or positive charges. It's either/or and not both simultaneously. Like charges repel each other and unlike charges attract. When they repel each other coagulation is prevented and a colloid forms.
A positive colloids travel up a thin strip of filter paper hung in a sol on the side of the beaker (did I remember that backwards?). Most gold colloids are negatively charged and migrate to a positive anode in an dc electric cell. Most gold colloids are in an acidic sol and precipitate when the pH is raised to slightly above 7pH. Iron colloids are positively charged and co-precipitate with gold when added to or formed in situ with gold colloids. The dried, rusty colored powder becomes magnetic fooling the refiner into identifying the whole mass as iron. Did I hear some groans? Must be my imagination. 8) Dr. Poe
 

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