E-Waste using no chemicals - Can it be done?

[Martijn]

2. Yeah, I am a hobbyist, with 3 kilos of palladium, 19 kilos of silver, 12 kilos of gold, 20 kilos of platinum and all but platinum from about 2 tons of ewaste. I never said I was a professional, but my results are in line with multiple professional ewaste recyclers.

A hobby usually means doing it beside your daytime job. How on earth can you process those amounts and still have time for a life?

 

[anachronism]

A hobby usually means doing it beside your daytime job. How on earth can you process those amounts and still have time for a life?

You'd be amazed how it builds up Martijn with the right supply. Whilst I'm not warm and snuggly about the tone of the thread lately it's definitely possible.

 

[GoIdman]

What I am baffled is ....."12 kilos of gold,"......

At current market value 12 kg of gold is worth over 1 mil. USD...not to mention the other metals......Why on earth would someone with that bank account still working to get PM`s.

Investing that money would yield you a hefty amount of dividents yearly, so you could retire in the Bahamas and drink cocktails all day in the company of very attractive women.

just asking...for a friend..

Pete

 

[Manji Manii]

Please excuse me if i don`t understand quite what you mean...but sounds intristing enough to find out more about this process of yours.

Can you please tell me, exactly what material you use this process for.....schredded PCB?....Various mix of IC chips?....Pins,connectos,MLCC mixture?.....Ceramic IC?.....or the mixture of all materials whatsoever?...

I separate my materials on grade, if i dont sell as a whole board...so if i was to use this termite method of yours, what material is ideal to use this proces without contaminating my results with unwanted metals?

I am not a chemist, nor a metallurgist expert, that is why I ask, since you obviously have more information/experience on this topic...

Thanks..

Pete

There are two combination which works best but does not separate metals.

Al ZnO, zinc oxide when reacting will evaporate lead, zinc, magnesium and other light metals. While reacting, the aluminum produces aluminum oxide, which captures all these evaporating metals.

What I do with MlCCs is that since they are aluminum oxide ceramic is grind them into powered, then I mix in ratios of magnesium,a

 

[anarxi]

Grandfather at an appointment with a *** therapist:
— Doctor, it’s impossible to spend time with your wife more than 3 times a week.
- Grandpa, how old are you?
- 85.
- Grandpa, this is great!
- Yes? And my neighbor says that he is with his wife every day, and he is 95!
- and you say the same thing...


I would love to see photos, or better yet, a video of your process.

 

[Manji Manii]

In a nutshell, I was born with thirty times the money I need to live a comfortable life.

But ever since I was a kid, I have been obsessed with alloys and metal processes and just hoard my results.

Back in 2005 I was retained as a lawyer by a top producing ewaste recycling company in California and I began buying their slag, slimes, filters and flux waste and extracting the lost metals. Two years ago they closed shop and dumped a huge sorted amount of ewaste in my lap.

They used chemical processes, I used thermal processes.

All of my hoarding comes from the start of this when I was 8 and was digging up my back yard are finding lots of gold, then when ewaste started in the 90s, I was buying all sorts of crap, much of it military grade. My clients/suppliers bought from the military prodomonatly and I would suppose my returns are in line with military grade tech.


So, I automated a process using thermite and electrolytic refining for separation and I have world .... Errr had, world class grinding machines.

 

[Thirmo21]

Since you are equipped to deal with high temperature metal working, I would recommend taking the following steps.

1. Depopulate
2. Run a ceramic magnet through the material and pick up the nickel containing pieces.
3. Grind what is left into powder with a coffee grinder, use a espresso grinder.
4. Weigh the material and take equal amounts of zinc oxide and aluminum dust and mix it together. (Alternately, you can take the weight in aluminum foil plus the same in zinc oxide powder plus the grind and roll the foil with a strip of magnesium diagonally along the inside of the roll with the powder in the center, aluminum is flammable as foil.)
5. With a strip of magnesium ribbon as a fuse, put the mixture in a crucible and ignite the mixture using the magnesium fuse. Or light the fuse on the roll inside of a crucible, like you would use for iron smelting, not a little one ounce thing.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0272884217320977#:~:text=The above-mentioned values reveal,In fact,


The aluminum will burn off at a temperature in excess of the evaporation point of zinc metal leaving behind aluminum oxide and a blob of metal at the bottom of the crucible that will be predominantly silver, gold, copper and palladium. The rest will be aluminum oxide.

Just sell it as is. Somebody will pay you a lot more money than doing anything more would cost you.

If it is a smartphone, the mainboard PCB will be a gold and silver alloy, not copper, shred tablet, phone and small electronics boards and mix them in with the thermite and burn off the cellulose in the process, but this will make the mix burn hot and smokey.

As for fingers, containing a layer of gold on nickel layered on copper, believe it or not, but you can just sell those on eBay for about what you would expect to get by going through some process to extract the gold at home without chemicals.

Hope this helps, zinc oxide is cheap and aluminum foil is even cheaper and you can spend $20 in materials to extract up to 1 kilo of ewaste alloy.

Even if this was viable for refining. Which it isnt as its one big blob that would need lots of acids. There would be lots of unnecessary zinc and aluminium contamination i think. As opposed to standart copper smelt of whole pcbs. Thus there would be need for it to be inquarted and parted using silver, or melted with copper and gone through copper cell. So that the material can be easily attacked by acids.

Your method could still be used as extraction method, but...

How do you know you dont have losses in the aluminum oxide slag?
The reaction is quite energetic and using dry ice to make the reaction more manageable, isnt really something that everybody has access to.


I dont see any benefit of this over smelting techniques.
From what i see, your technique wastes time in sorting and depopulation, and requires different materials.
How long will that crucible hold out for?
I doubt very long.


If you think otherwise, then tell me more details why your process has any benefits over already established practices.

 

[anachronism]

I get ya, there is very little smoke in the process unless you are burning main boards.

But if you separate pins out and use a magnet to get the nickel MLCCs out and then turn everything into dust and drop it in your furnace, your end product should be mostly silver, gold and palladium with the silver being about equal to palladian and gold being about 20% of the end product.

Manji. The losses from dust are astronomical. That's why commercial refineries don't like it. What kind of furnace are you using please?

 

[kurtak]

A hobby usually means doing it beside your daytime job. How on earth can you process those amounts and still have time for a life?

You'd be amazed how it builds up Martijn with the right supply. Whilst I'm not warm and snuggly about the tone of the thread lately it's definitely possible.

Per the bold print (above quote)

I agree that it is possible but unlikely unless you see/handle A LOT of the VERY HIGHEST grade boards

Example; - when I was over at your place for our get together I processed a batch of ceramic ICs from a bin of your boards (pics included here)

The bin of boards was (plus/minus) about 50 pounds (or 23 kilos) from which I got a little over 2 kilos of ICs which yielded something like 52 - 54 grams gold

Using "off the top of my head" math that is "about" (plus/minus) 70 ozt gold per ton of boards - or "about" 2 kilos & 6 ozt per ton boards

So to achieve 12 kilos of gold you would have to process nothing but the ICs from "roughly" 6 tons of nothing but that grade boards

So I agree that it is (definitely) possible - but only if you see large amounts of the VERY HIGH grade stuff

So more like 3 X the 2 tons of boards Manji claims he recover 12 kilos gold from

Whilst I'm not warm and snuggly about the tone of the thread lately

So it is not so much that I am calling Manji out on his thermite process (though that is open to debate/discussion) it is more his outrageous claims of recovery

Manji is not the first new member to come here making such claims - & when such claims are made - they need to be backed up - which means they need to be called out

If such claims can be backed up - through the process of calling them out - then great - as we all then learn something

So -------------

In a nutshell, I was born with thirty times the money I need to live a comfortable life.

But ever since I was a kid, I have been obsessed with alloys and metal processes and just hoard my results.

Back in 2005 I was retained as a lawyer by a top producing ewaste recycling company in California and I began buying their slag, slimes, filters and flux waste and extracting the lost metals. Two years ago they closed shop and dumped a huge sorted amount of ewaste in my lap.

They used chemical processes, I used thermal processes.

All of my hoarding comes from the start of this when I was 8 and was digging up my back yard are finding lots of gold, then when ewaste started in the 90s, I was buying all sorts of crap, much of it military grade. My clients/suppliers bought from the military prodomonatly and I would suppose my returns are in line with military grade tech.


So, I automated a process using thermite and electrolytic refining for separation and I have world .... Errr had, world class grinding machines.

With that post Manji "somewhat" backed up & "somewhat" gave credibility to his claims

Therefore I hope he will stick around for further discussion on this matter

After all he says he is a lawyer so he should be a good litigator/debater in proving out his claims in the process of cross examination

Kurt

 

[J.Najam]

Per the bold print (above quote)

I agree that it is possible but unlikely unless you see/handle A LOT of the VERY HIGHEST grade boards

Example; - when I was over at your place for our get together I processed a batch of ceramic ICs from a bin of your boards (pics included here)

The bin of boards was (plus/minus) about 50 pounds (or 23 kilos) from which I got a little over 2 kilos of ICs which yielded something like 52 - 54 grams gold

Using "off the top of my head" math that is "about" (plus/minus) 70 ozt gold per ton of boards - or "about" 2 kilos & 6 ozt per ton boards

So to achieve 12 kilos of gold you would have to process nothing but the ICs from "roughly" 6 tons of nothing but that grade boards

So I agree that it is (definitely) possible - but only if you see large amounts of the VERY HIGH grade stuff

So more like 3 X the 2 tons of boards Manji claims he recover 12 kilos gold from


So it is not so much that I am calling Manji out on his thermite process (though that is open to debate/discussion) it is more his outrageous claims of recovery

Manji is not the first new member to come here making such claims - & when such claims are made - they need to be backed up - which means they need to be called out

If such claims can be backed up - through the process of calling them out - then great - as we all then learn something

So -------------


With that post Manji "somewhat" backed up & "somewhat" gave credibility to his claims

Therefore I hope he will stick around for further discussion on this matter

After all he says he is a lawyer so he should be a good litigator/debater in proving out his claims in the process of cross examination

Kurt

WOW!!!

These boards look world class. WHich ones are these? They may be a very hard find down here, but I've got to start looking for stuff like this. I presume they must've been very expensive too?

 

[g_axelsson]

What I do with MlCCs is that since they are aluminum oxide ceramic is grind them into powered, then I mix in ratios of magnesium,a

The ceramic in MLCC:s is barium titanate, not aluminium oxide.

Göran