Electrolysis

[Anonymous]

Hi all, this may be simple and show how new I am to this. so here is my questions

Electrolysis - can't you just take mixed metals that are in a thin sheet and electrolysis in HCL to a solid gold bar (pencil thick) to collect more gold?
voltage between 3.0 and 4.0 somewhere.

total process question... I have a ton of computer parts and was wondering do you soak the whole board to get all silver, gold and platnium or is that overkill? because no precious metals? should i just cut out the pins and use that only.

lst question - electrolysis process.
copper gets copper
stainless steel get silver
gold gets gold (not totally sure)
??? get Platnium

Thanks oh one more... what is the best way to make the furnance i have seen a million ways but i need a small one about the size of 5 gallon bucket to melt all mix together to do electrolysis - how far into stupid did i go?

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Welcome to the forum.

It is not a good idea to melt the parts into a slab and then refine the slab unless you are set up to already do this.

There are a lot of different parts in boards that contain precious metals(PM's). Do a lot of reading to understand the chemical process involved before you start any work on recovering any PM's. Download the book called Hokes it will give you a guide to the different processes.

This file contains a list of pm's in computers but is does not cover all parts. That is learned by experience.

View attachment 20327561-Scrap-Parts-Comp-Identification.pdf

 

[dick b]

Welcome to the forum:
Open up a topic by Lazersteve and take his guided tour. Then visit his website. Then open up a topic by Pallidum and download information form his signature lines.
http://www.goldrecovery.us/index.asp
Lots of reading to do ahead for you!!!!!!
Dickb

 

[leavemealone]

Excellent link Barren.
Johnny

 

[qst42know]

If only it were that simple.

I have seen videos that depict the process as just that simple but that's not the whole truth. Stick around and do some reading.

 

[goldsilverpro]

Russ0712,

Welcome to the forum.

Electrolysis - can't you just take mixed metals that are in a thin sheet and electrolysis in HCL to a solid gold bar (pencil thick) to collect more gold?
voltage between 3.0 and 4.0 somewhere.

No.

lst question - electrolysis process.
copper gets copper
stainless steel get silver
gold gets gold (not totally sure)
??? get Platnium

No to all. You've been watching that youtube video, haven't you? They made it sound real easy and they left a lot out. The cathode used (copper, stainless, gold) has absolutely nothing to do with which metal plates out. In the video, it assumes that you only have copper, silver, and gold in the bar - nothing else. Each step requires re-melting what is left into a bar and placing it in a totally different solution - that's what they didn't tell you. Copper uses weak sulfuric acid and copper sulfate. The silver uses a weak nitric acid solution containing silver nitrate and copper nitrate. The gold, a weak hydrochloric acid solution with chloroauric acid in it. The cathodes used just happen to be what are used for those particular solutions. If you put a copper sheet in a silver solution, silver would plate out, not copper. If you put a copper sheet in a gold solution, you would plate out gold.

This only works this way for these particular 3 metals. If you had a gold, nickel, and iron bar, you would have to work out an entirely different group of solutions and it might not even be possible to do this.

In the video, they just happened to pick 3 metals in which the technology is widely known. In reality, those pins they melted probably weren't pure copper, but had zinc in them also. This could throw a kink in the whole thing.

Chris

 

[Oz]

Russ,

Listen to Chris on this, to the best of my knowledge he has more years and/or ounces under his belt than anyone else here when it comes to plating or electrolytic cells.

 

[goldsilverpro]

Thanks, Oz.

 

[bid_slayer88]

No to all. You've been watching that youtube video, haven't you? haaaaa yes that was like the first thing I ever saw on refining it made me glow to! lol wow little more educated and still getting harder lol haaa :mrgreen:

 

[Anonymous]

Well Hi and thanks,,, i actually watched a pbs tv show on electrolysis... and yes they didn't mention the liquid mixture. but i was sure the copper cathode pulled (for a laymans term) copper to itself.. man do i have a lot of reading to do... i have 12 computers completely pulled apart and a 1/2 pound of gold fillings.

 

[qst42know]

It is likely they deposit copper on to copper to avoid the labor of separating the deposit from the cathode. Tin is electrolytically refined on to pure tin. I would guess it depends on how the deposits form and how difficult they are to collect will determine which cathode works best.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi again, About electrolysis,,, some of you just flat said no... that dismisal of _ - The electrolytic method of gold refining was first developed by Dr. Emil Wohlwill of Norddeutsche Affinerie in Hamburg in 1874. Dr. Wohlwill’s process is based on the solubility of gold but the insolubility of silver in an electrolyte solution of gold chloride (AuCl3) in hydrochloric acid. -
now i ask - if this is a true method what stops anyone from doing what i first mentioned. Electrolysis for gold.

sorry to be stuburn but it really seems so simple... if i could find a few who has done it to learn from their mistakes.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Hi again, About electrolysis,,, some of you just flat said no... that dismisal of _ - The electrolytic method of gold refining was first developed by Dr. Emil Wohlwill of Norddeutsche Affinerie in Hamburg in 1874. Dr. Wohlwill’s process is based on the solubility of gold but the insolubility of silver in an electrolyte solution of gold chloride (AuCl3) in hydrochloric acid. -

Possibly you should look at what the author has written on the complete subject that includes all the metals. But I don't think you will find it from him.

You see that would be from the platinum group all the way down to lead.

If you were a large refiner you could make it cost effective to possibly melt it and send it out to be deplated as you are stating. A refiner has a minimun amount they will take 5,000 lbs I think is around the weight to be cost effective.

For a small refiner it is not cost effective with electronic scrap.

now i ask - if this is a true method what stops anyone from doing what i first mentioned. Electrolysis for gold.

There are methods of doing this, but it's not just a wham bam thank you mam. 8)

sorry to be stuburn but it really seems so simple... if i could find a few who has done it to learn from their mistakes.

Goldsilverpro is the best you are ever going to find to teach you anything on plating. My advise would be not to snuff him or iritate him if you care to have his help.

We had a guy on here a few months ago that wanted to take pins and plate them and sell them on ebay. This is a sequence I wrote for him explaing what he would have to do. Do not take heart at the following it is no ment towards you he was being a jerk. This would be the rough procedure that you would have to go thru just to do part of what you are wanting to do.

It sounds more like you would want to take a dirty batch of pins and polish them and resell them rather than replate them.Polishing them you could do in a tumbler with media and then use a screen to sift and then resell them.

To reelectroplate them there are numerous variables you would have to keep track of.
1. Cleaning the pins in an acid solution for the new gold to adhere properly.
A. Cleaning the contaminants from the dirty pins that go into soultion.
B. Keeping PH adjusted properly.
C. Keeping temperature in check.
D. Keeping your voltage and amperage in check if it is included in your process.

2. I might be wrong about this but you will possibly have to plate them with a new material like nickle to give a good even coat for the new gold to stick to and have the quality you are desireing to sell.
A. Cleaning the contaminants that go into soultion.
B. Keeping PH adjusted properly.
C. Keeping temperature in check.
D. Keeping your voltage and amperage in check in your process.
E. Develope a saturated solution of nickle to plate onto the pins.
F. You would have to have a supply of new nickle feeding the solution to keep the concentration consistant.
G. you will probably have to set up a tumbler cell to acomplish this and get an even coat on the pins.
H. You will have to keep track of your plating time to keep your thickness consistant.

3. You now have you gold plating solution that you will have to do the same things to.
A. Cleaning the contaminants that go into soultion.
B. Keeping PH adjusted properly.
C. Keeping temperature in check.
D. Keeping your voltage and amperage in check in your process.
E. Develope a saturated solution of nickle to plate onto the pins.
F. You would have to have a supply of new nickle feeding the solution to keep the concentration consistant.
G. you will probably have to set up a tumbler cell to acomplish this and get an even coat on the pins.
H. You will have to keep track of your plating time to keep your thickness consistant.

4. And finally you have your cleaning solution.

Quetion do you know anything about electrical, chemicals, metals, pumps, PH, piping?

This is just for plating pins and you are wanting to deplate Copper, silver, gold.
How will you handle your lead,tin,aluminum,platinum,palladium and a host of other metals.


Do you see the complexity of what you are asking now?

 

[nickvc]

Hi again, About electrolysis,,, some of you just flat said no... that dismisal of _ - The electrolytic method of gold refining was first developed by Dr. Emil Wohlwill of Norddeutsche Affinerie in Hamburg in 1874. Dr. Wohlwill’s process is based on the solubility of gold but the insolubility of silver in an electrolyte solution of gold chloride (AuCl3) in hydrochloric acid. -
now i ask - if this is a true method what stops anyone from doing what i first mentioned. Electrolysis for gold.

sorry to be stuburn but it really seems so simple... if i could find a few who has done it to learn from their mistakes.

Russ i like many other members of the forum have tried variations of the electrolysis method and the truth is it only works on high grade material whether its high % Cu with trace elements of precious metals or 95% + Au with traces of PGMS, as soon as you drop below a certain % of the metal to be refined by electrolysis you get problems that you wont be able to easily resolve.Research copper refining and see the high % they need to make it work the same with the Wohlwill cell.GSP is unfortunately right as he usually is, there are so many variables in the electrolysis methods that they are far and away from been possible for most members. Im trying to recover Cu from gold filled as a trial and as GSP said its far from easy i have added Cu to raise the % above 90% and am still only getting a partial success ,the nickel tin and zinc are causing problems with the depositing of the Cu as GSP said they would,seriously as a newbie learn the methods that work each and every time to recover your gold, help is on hand ,you will soon learn by the simple mistakes you make and you will also learn who on the forum really are the true experts in their own fields.GSP been one of those whose advice you really need to listen to.

 

[grayswaindir47]

Hi again, About electrolysis,,, some of you just flat said no... that dismisal of _ - The electrolytic method of gold refining was first developed by Dr. Emil Wohlwill of Norddeutsche Affinerie in Hamburg in 1874. Dr. Wohlwill’s process is based on the solubility of gold but the insolubility of silver in an electrolyte solution of gold chloride (AuCl3) in hydrochloric acid. -
now i ask - if this is a true method what stops anyone from doing what i first mentioned. Electrolysis for gold.

sorry to be stuburn but it really seems so simple... if i could find a few who has done it to learn from their mistakes.

I apologize for necroposting but I have been researching both the Miller process and the Wohlwill process for my own interests. We learn from the accumulation of human knowledge along with mistakes of others.
One misnomer I see in the posts above is that the silver does not go into solution. The silver goes into solution for however long it takes to form silver chloride which mostly precipitates out of solution in a slime. However if there is too much silver in the anode, or the current is to high; the silver chloride can collect on the cathode impeding the reaction. The process works best of the gold is at least ninety-five percent pure and clean of copper and other base metals.

References:
The Applications of Electrolysis in Chemical Industry Lots of details here. Here's an example:

The plant at the Philadelphia Mint consists of a 5 H.P. dynamo furnishing 100 to 600 amps, at 6 volts. The cells are of porcelain 15 in. x n in. x 8 in., and seven such cells are run in series. Each cell contains 12 amodes and 13 cathodes in multiple ...

Unfortunately OCR isn't perfect so invest in a copy of the book at B&N or Amazon.
Patent 625,863 - 1896 Wohlwill Original patent
Patent 625,864 - 1899 Wohlwill Follow on to original patent.
Patent 961,924 - 1910 Wohlwill Describing wiring AC in series with DC to create a DC biased AC current to improve the process.

 

[jimdoc]

The pdf is on this page if anybody prefers it;

http://www.archive.org/details/applicationsofel00halerich

 

[nickvc]

All electro refining processes work best on very high grade input materials, I personally would advise using 98%+ as your input materials or the electrolyte fouls very quickly or needs constant attention.
It's main use is to raise the pureness of the metals to the industry standards even the large copper refiners who treat much of the e scrap dore bars have very pure metal as their starting materials.
The Miller Process has been discussed and de bunked here on the forum, it has been superseded by more modern methods in many refineries now, it's primary use was to create a one hit feed stock for the cells to keep them running 24/7 and was for years the best kept secret in gold refining.