Estimation of yields per ton of boards

[kurtak]

For the hobby refiner looking to build up his or her personal gold reserves, processing disassembled computers on a small bucket scale using techniques learned here, I would imagine if the source of the scrap computers is available for little or no money, one could realize 10 ounces of refined gold at the end of a year with a modest hobby sized operation

Per the bold print - there is simply NO WAY a hobby person working on "bucket scale" operation with techniques discussed here on the forum will come even close to realizing 10 ozt gold processing "run of the mill" modern day CBs --- maybe - at best - 2 - 2.5 ozt (per year) & you are going to work your butt off to get that

To put it somewhat in perspective

That's a significant amount of computers. Given the amount of gold that you actually get in modern computers. I'm taking in approximately 90% small socket motherboards. They sell to the refinery at 1.85/lb. Each one weighs around a pound and a half. Assuming a gold content that is 2x the purchase price, which is pretty generous, you are looking at needing 400 computers per ounce. My gaylords have about 650 lbs of boards in them.

Per the bold print - here are some real numbers

A small socket or metal socket mother board "on average" weighs "about" 1.15 pounds

Currently boardsort is paying $2.90 for small socket & $2.50 metal socket

If you send nothing but 1 ton of metal socket mother boards to a smelter that ton will yield right at 3.5 ozt

At 1.15 pound per MB that means you need 1,739 MBs to make a ton

That means to see 10 ozt gold you would need to process (about) 3 tons of boards = 5,217 MBs

there is simply no way a hobby guy - working out of buckets is going to realize that & that is because it is no longer a hobby but now a real job

Breaking down the numbers a bit more

3.5 ozt = 108.85 grams

108.85 grams divided by 1,739 MBs = 0.062 gram per MB

Gold at $76 per gram = $4.71 per mother board

The smelter I sent boards to (link in my first post) charges 90 cents a pound for processing


So - $4.71 - $.90 = $3.81 --- (note - you also have a cost if you process)

$3.81 - $2.50 (boardsort pay out) = $1.31 (at best) above what boardsort pays if you process instead of selling direct to a board buyer like boardsort

That is why the hobby guy simply can NOT realize a profit on run of the mill consumer grade boards

To realize a profit you MUST deal in HIGH volume

That is why when I was doing this "for a living" 90 - 95% of the boards I handled ether went to LARGE board buyers or to the smelter

I ONLY processed the VERY HIGHEST grade stuff in house - EVERYTHING else went to companies set up to handle/process HIGH volume because there just simply is NO WAY a hobby guy - working out of buckets can process enough material to realize a profit

Like most here on the forum - I to started out on a hobby level thinking I could make money (hobby that pays for it self) processing run of the mill consumer grade CBs --- it did not take me long (about a year) to figure out that you can NOT make money at this as a hobby working out of buckets - you MUST deal in HIGH volume - at which point it is no longer a hobby but a REAL job - & requires a fair sized investment of both time & money in order to set up to run the high volumes needed to realize anything close to what could be considered making a profit

Kurt

 

[offtrailhiker]

For the hobby refiner looking to build up his or her personal gold reserves, processing disassembled computers on a small bucket scale using techniques learned here, I would imagine if the source of the scrap computers is available for little or no money, one could realize 10 ounces of refined gold at the end of a year with a modest hobby sized operation.

Again I have only done this on a larger scale using commercial methods but the numbers seem to hold up. I'd like to hear from some hobby refiners who do this for fun and enjoy building their own gold reserves about their experiences.

I don't know if you bother with YouTube. Quite a few hobby refiners are there and do report their findings. Facebook has a few groups that do the same. Christian333 hosts one of them. From what I noticed, your 10 oz estimate is about right.

 

[offtrailhiker]

Per the bold print - there is simply NO WAY a hobby person working on "bucket scale" operation with techniques discussed here on the forum will come even close to realizing 10 ozt gold processing "run of the mill" modern day CBs --- maybe - at best - 2 - 2.5 ozt (per year) & you are going to work your butt off to get that

To put it somewhat in perspective


Per the bold print - here are some real numbers

A small socket or metal socket mother board "on average" weighs "about" 1.15 pounds

Currently boardsort is paying $2.90 for small socket & $2.50 metal socket

If you send nothing but 1 ton of metal socket mother boards to a smelter that ton will yield right at 3.5 ozt

At 1.15 pound per MB that means you need 1,739 MBs to make a ton

That means to see 10 ozt gold you would need to process (about) 3 tons of boards = 5,217 MBs

there is simply no way a hobby guy - working out of buckets is going to realize that & that is because it is no longer a hobby but now a real job

Breaking down the numbers a bit more

3.5 ozt = 108.85 grams

108.85 grams divided by 1,739 MBs = 0.062 gram per MB

Gold at $76 per gram = $4.71 per mother board

The smelter I sent boards to (link in my first post) charges 90 cents a pound for processing


So - $4.71 - $.90 = $3.81 --- (note - you also have a cost if you process)

$3.81 - $2.50 (boardsort pay out) = $1.31 (at best) above what boardsort pays if you process instead of selling direct to a board buyer like boardsort

That is why the hobby guy simply can NOT realize a profit on run of the mill consumer grade boards

To realize a profit you MUST deal in HIGH volume

That is why when I was doing this "for a living" 90 - 95% of the boards I handled ether went to LARGE board buyers or to the smelter

I ONLY processed the VERY HIGHEST grade stuff in house - EVERYTHING else went to companies set up to handle/process HIGH volume because there just simply is NO WAY a hobby guy - working out of buckets can process enough material to realize a profit

Like most here on the forum - I to started out on a hobby level thinking I could make money (hobby that pays for it self) processing run of the mill consumer grade CBs --- it did not take me long (about a year) to figure out that you can NOT make money at this as a hobby working out of buckets - you MUST deal in HIGH volume - at which point it is no longer a hobby but a REAL job - & requires a fair sized investment of both time & money in order to set up to run the high volumes needed to realize anything close to what could be considered making a profit

Kurt

I appreciate your sharing data from your experience. Thank you

 

[offtrailhiker]

That's a significant amount of computers. Given the amount of gold that you actually get in modern computers. I'm taking in approximately 90% small socket motherboards. They sell to the refinery at 1.85/lb. Each one weighs around a pound and a half. Assuming a gold content that is 2x the purchase price, which is pretty generous, you are looking at needing 400 computers per ounce. My gaylords have about 650 lbs of boards in them.

10 computers/day is certainly not onerous. That should yield 4metal's 10 ozs, right?

 

[anachronism]

10 computers/day is certainly not onerous. That should yield 4metal's 10 ozs, right?

Sadly not. One of the big things that gets lost in translation is that chasing the small amounts of gold on lower grade boards discounts the value in the sale price of the complete board's copper value. For many many types of board the home refiner is not going to achieve anywhere near the amount of money they would receive if they simply traded the boards to a repeatable company.

I can assure you that you would make a lot more money by selling these lower grade PC boards. Use the money to buy gold, higher grade product, or better equipment. It's far more satisfying to see a big drop of gold from high yielding material than scratch around for weeks on end to find 2 grammes I promise. I don't ever want to do that again however it's all part of the rite of passage.

Now if someone wants to simply enjoy the experience and challenge of recovering gold that's perfectly fine it really is. I completely get that, I really do.

But (and it's a big but) to do this to make money that cannot happen because you need to receive fair value for metals beyond the gold. It doesn't make commercial sense to do it any other way.

Both paths are completely laudable however they need to be put into context.

 

[snoman701]

I recently got rid of about 6 old computers which I never trashed before. They were all at least 10 years old. From what I saw in Mexico a lot of the computers were older. Is that not true here now as well?

THe computers that have good value are significantly older. Circa 1990. The old guys are still out there, heck, you likely just got rid of at least one of them....but the glut of what you get are offices upgrading. Pallets of small socket computers the size of a college chemistry text. Thats why I say that 90% of the computers you get are garbage. You still get the house cleanouts, they just aren't as common.

When I buy a gaylord of unsorted boards, I may find 3-5 gold capped chips......IF nobody else has been in them. And zero of them will be socketed, they'll all be soldered to the board.

It's still possible to do well, but there is nothing easy about it. You just have to bust your butt and make wise decisions.

 

[snoman701]

Per the bold print - here are some real numbers

A small socket or metal socket mother board "on average" weighs "about" 1.15 pounds

Currently boardsort is paying $2.90 for small socket & $2.50 metal socket

If you send nothing but 1 ton of metal socket mother boards to a smelter that ton will yield right at 3.5 ozt

Yeah, my post was after I had taken my sleeping pill. I just realized that it was a significant amount of computers and was trying to construct the narrative so people understood. I used 1.85 because there is still the chinese motherboards that only bring $1.50 / pound.

When people hold an ounce of gold in their hand, they don't realize how many tons of "dirt" had to be moved to get that one tiny ounce out of the ground. (on average)

 

[kurtak]

Sadly not. One of the big things that gets lost in translation is that chasing the small amounts of gold on lower grade boards discounts the value in the sale price of the complete board's copper value. For many many types of board the home refiner is not going to achieve anywhere near the amount of money they would receive if they simply traded the boards to a repeatable company.

I can assure you that you would make a lot more money by selling these lower grade PC boards. Use the money to buy gold, higher grade product, or better equipment. It's far more satisfying to see a big drop of gold from high yielding material than scratch around for weeks on end to find 2 grammes I promise. I don't ever want to do that again however it's all part of the rite of passage.

Now if someone wants to simply enjoy the experience and challenge of recovering gold that's perfectly fine it really is. I completely get that, I really do.

But (and it's a big but) to do this to make money that cannot happen because you need to receive fair value for metals beyond the gold. It doesn't make commercial sense to do it any other way.

Both paths are completely laudable however they need to be put into context.

AWESOME post Jon & I agree completely

Kurt

 

[Shark]

There is a reason I seem to push copper cells. That’s on a large scale is where the money is.

 

[snoman701]

There is a reason I seem to push copper cells. That’s on a large scale is where the money is.

Unfortunately, on a small scale, without the analytics to keep your electrolyte in the proper range, as well as the ability to sparge your melt to get rid of the zinc/lead/tin....it is a pain in the butt to keep in operation. They are a great tool, but I end up with floating turds.

 

[snoman701]

Now, that is not to say that you can't do what Kurt used to do, which was just melt it all into a bar and sell the bar on assay.

That is, if you can sell it on assay without getting hosed on the assay. Which leads us back to why we refine in the first place.

Kurt...when you were doing it, were you sampling your melt and using an independent assay to determine approximate value before handing it over? If so, pin sample? Drill?

 

[Shark]

Unfortunately, on a small scale, without the analytics to keep your electrolyte in the proper range, as well as the ability to sparge your melt to get rid of the zinc/lead/tin....it is a pain in the butt to keep in operation. They are a great tool, but I end up with floating turds.

Yep. And that is why I worked my way into the gold filled area. I also had a ton of luck and used contacts from many years ago.

 

[Shark]

Just to add a bit more. I also went to copper cells because it was easier to leave boards in AP longer, and recover it as time or health allowed. No rush.

 

[4metals]

I this thread, @icejj. showed his results from 3 years collecting and refining. If this came from scrap he acquired very cheap or free he is approaching the 10 oz per year estimate I gave for a hobby refiner. He said it is 809 grams or 8.67 ounces per year. I would like to get an idea of how much and what type of scrap yielded that beautiful image and how many hours a day or week he works at it.

The goal of this thread is to show by example what can be done by a serious hobby refiner rather than one who collects, disassembles, shreds and ships to a refiner to turn a profit. I realize there are many here who do this for a living but there are likely more who want to dabble in this because they have access to circuitry or other scrap. This is just to show, by example what is possible for a reasonable effort.

 

[anachronism]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 809g 26.01 troy oz? I can see someone getting up to 10 oz per year doing it "on the free" but having a cracking supply line but 26 oz might be pushing it a bit.

Edit- if there was a fair amount of toll work that could push the numbers up.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

It was collected over three years.

Dave

 

[markscomp]

you are both correct but Jon you may be missing the 3 year part of the equation - take that 26.01 and divide it by 3 years

Jon you are getting soft in your old age

 

[snoman701]

Nothing about free or cheap 10 oz a year of gold from electronics is a hobby, it would be flat out luck. I had it happen once. I paid $200 for 2 oz of gold because I got lucky. That luck kept my house out of foreclosure and allowed me to build. But that wasn't even circuit boards, those were industrial yag lasers.

Over a decade of constantly looking for free or cheap gold. I've probably read a good majority of this forum looking for untapped local sources. I've wore the fingers out of countless pairs of leather gloves on computer boards. I've got a titanium screw in my wrist after falling while loading my truck.
The only reason I'm still collecting e-scrap is because I'm scared to quit. I have good relationships with my suppliers, and I know how hard I worked to build them. It pays the bills when other things don't, and life is unpredictable.

 

[snoman701]

So instead of playing naysayer after trying to do this for too long, lets go back to topic at hand.

I've got a storage unit full of high grade boards.

The only refiner in the continental USA that burns 100%, then samples has turned me down. Every small board buyer I've spoke to that has tried SIPI, Colt, Reldon, etc etc etc has gotten very questionable results, as in, often less than what they would have been paid if they sold outright after they pay the refining fees.

So lets say that I have a ton of boards that refine out at $20 / lb across ceramic DIP's, plastic DIP's, mlcc's, connectors and fingers.

How do I actually realize anything more than the $8/lb that I'm going to get paid without dropping five grams from 4 liters of AR?

I'm well versed on all the different processing methods.

 

[anarxi]

in affinage, as in any business that is associated with the creation of real material things, there are only 2 paths
either scaling or a narrow segment...
in this highly competitive (now) business, the average people don't survive.
raw material extraction is our everything.
ways of extracting rich material, well, you can try investing money in a YouTube channel.
good script, normal voice acting, correct filming, good editing.
processing of various raw materials, using different methods...
if this is done well, subscribers will appear who will send material themselves...