Familiarization, Karat Gold and Stannous Chloride

[Phishin_ca]

First Post! I have been a member for a while, but I feel that I am at the point where I can post a question or two. Before I do, I want to assure everyone that I am not going to jump into a process without fully understanding the results (including what can go wrong). From my readings of "The Helping Friendly Book" and many posts on this board, I feel that my first acquaintance tests will involve;

1. Creating stannous chloride. http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22011 (Thanks kadriver!). My understanding from reading other threads is if I keep a bit of Sn in the bottom of the container, I can just replenish with HCL as needed to fill the bottle. Am I correct that the ratio of Sn:HCL is not as important as ensuring that the solution can no longer absorb more tin?

2. Creating a known good test solution of gold. The best source for this is a button or karat gold. This is where I feel I need to really slow down, even though I never really got up to speed. I believe there are several methods to get this solution. Karat gold, flattened, in AR or NaNO3 in HCL with heat. Is it possible to dissolve higher karat gold in HCL+Cl? I think the additional metals would grind it to a halt. As evidenced by many threads I have seen on this board, I could just dump a lot of H2O2 and HCL on some fingers and get a positive test but who wants dirty standards?

I really want to take this first step and sit back for a while (maybe even repeat it a time or two) so I don't become a statistic.

I also wanted to say Thank You to Dave (FrugalRefiner) for a warm welcome (even though it was private).

And to Harold... With all the research that I have done over the past year, I think that your demeanor and class with handling this forum is wonderful. While it may seem heavy handed to some, I understand that we are not talking about making bracelets from bubble gum wrappers. I really appreciate the fact that there is not a lot of drama here.

Too Long? Didn't Read?
1. Is it OK to keep feeding Sn to HCL until there is no reaction to make my stannous chloride test solution?
2. Can I use HCL+Cl to dissolve 18k gold for my standard, or do I have to use AR?

I would really like to talk about the how and why, more than just receiving a referral to another resource (search or document). Sorry if it seams basic to those of you who have done this in the past. I just want to learn everything I can. I think this kind of dialog facilitates that.

Shawn

 

[Phishin_ca]

Edited, unnecessary.

 

[butcher]

Phishin_ca,

If you are just doing acquaintance tests, you can dissolve gold foils in HCl and H2O2, or HCl and bleach.
it does not take much to get acquainted with the reactions, small test tubes can be used.

After you get acquainted, if you wish to make a standard test solution it is a bit more detailed.
Keep reading Hoke's book everything you need is there. She also has a good book on testing I suggest reading it also.

Read up on stannous chloride. Stannous can go bad. if you keep a piece of metallic tin and (make sure to keep it acidic) and air tight it will last a little longer (do not dilute), all the information is here you just need to study it.

 

[upcyclist]

A couple of other points on stannous chloride and testing:

- Your gold control solution does not have to be very concentrated. You can experiment with this when you make your control solution. If it's dark yellow, it's stronger than you need.

- Test your stannous with the control solution every couple of days (or every day if you want) to be sure it's still good. If it's not, you might be throwing out your gold!

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Test your stannous with the control solution every couple of days (or every day if you want) to be sure it's still good. If it's not, you might be throwing out your gold!

I've never felt the need to test stannous unless it gives a negative test. If I use it, and it gives a positive result, I know it's working. If I use it and it gives a negative result, then I check it with standard gold solution to make sure the negative is an accurate result, and not an indicator that my stannous has gone bad.

No need to waste gold solution unless I have to. It's my frugal approach.

Dave

 

[upcyclist]

Test your stannous with the control solution every couple of days (or every day if you want) to be sure it's still good. If it's not, you might be throwing out your gold!

I've never felt the need to test stannous unless it gives a negative test. If I use it, and it gives a positive result, I know it's working. If I use it and it gives a negative result, then I check it with standard gold solution to make sure the negative is an accurate result, and not an indicator that my stannous has gone bad.

No need to waste gold solution unless I have to. It's my frugal approach.

Dave

True--an excellent qualification.

Beginners like me, who don't know what to expect, may test more often then--because I'm essentially using the stannous to reinforce my learning. "I should not have any gold in solution at this point. Yup, test is negative. Am I sure the stannous still works?" I occasionally check the pH and visually check for solid tin in my dropper bottle instead of testing with known gold solution.

 

[Phishin_ca]

Thanks everyone for the responses! I think that from Butcher's suggestion of using gold foils to create the control solution, I will process a small batch, 10-20g of fingers to recover foils and then use the HCL and bleach solution in a test tube. I may try this next weekend. I still want to read some more first.

Thanks Again,
Shawn

 

[Phishin_ca]

Test your stannous with the control solution every couple of days (or every day if you want) to be sure it's still good. If it's not, you might be throwing out your gold!

I've never felt the need to test stannous unless it gives a negative test. If I use it, and it gives a positive result, I know it's working. If I use it and it gives a negative result, then I check it with standard gold solution to make sure the negative is an accurate result, and not an indicator that my stannous has gone bad.

No need to waste gold solution unless I have to. It's my frugal approach.

Dave

True--an excellent qualification.

Beginners like me, who don't know what to expect, may test more often then--because I'm essentially using the stannous to reinforce my learning. "I should not have any gold in solution at this point. Yup, test is negative. Am I sure the stannous still works?" I occasionally check the pH and visually check for solid tin in my dropper bottle instead of testing with known gold solution.

This is where I think I would see myself for the near future

 

[Phishin_ca]

I wanted to post a followup. I forgot to take pictures of the stannous chloride testing. I was able to take the foils recovered from some RAM fingers and produce a gold bearing solution.

Obviously, I was excited to see it work as expected. Why wouldn't it? After I filled my 10ml dropper bottle with Auric Chloride, I figured I might as well take it to the next step.


So now I have some powder that I know I need to wash. That will probably take me another week (I like to take it slow). I know it isn't much, but I couldn't be happier!

So I now have these separate containers of waste. I want to fully manage this small quantity by walking through the stock pot process. I am sure any recovery would be immeasurable, but I just want to know that I am being responsible.

Thank you all again for all of the information shared. I really does mean a lot to me, and I just wish I had something to contribute!

Shawn

 

[Anonymous]

Shawn

That's looking good mate.

Jon

 

[Phishin_ca]

Shawn

That's looking good mate.

Jon

That means a lot. Thanks!

Shawn

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I just wish I had something to contribute!

You just did.

Dave

 

[Phishin_ca]

Straight into question mode... Is the discoloration of the powder caused by a different metal? I thought that everything higher than iron would cause a green(er) tint to my solution. Will I reduce the powder by that amount when I do the washing?

I am thinking Steve's 2-brick furnace (with MAPP) is going to be my best bet to get something shiny in the end. Should I post an intermediate step to show that I have remove base metals before melting?

Sorry for too many questions at one time.

Shawn

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Shawn

Given the base material that you used, the most likely contamination is copper. Do you have HCl available to you in a good strength?

Jon

 

[Anonymous]

Read up on stannous chloride. Stannous can go bad. if you keep a piece of metallic tin and (make sure to keep it acidic) and air tight it will last a little longer (do not dilute), all the information is here you just need to study it.

It lasts for months and months stored with a little common sense, let's not get into instilling fear into people here please.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Read up on stannous chloride. Stannous can go bad. if you keep a piece of metallic tin and (make sure to keep it acidic) and air tight it will last a little longer (do not dilute), all the information is here you just need to study it.

It lasts for months and months stored with a little common sense, let's not get into instilling fear into people here please.

:?:

Stannous can go bad. You keep tin in it and air tight to make it last longer. How is butcher's post "instilling fear"?

Dave

 

[Phishin_ca]

Hi Shawn

Given the base material that you used, the most likely contamination is copper. Do you have HCl available to you in a good strength?

Jon

I do. Hot washes are in order for Monday! So you are agreeing that the multicolored powder is indicating contamination?

 

[Phishin_ca]

Read up on stannous chloride. Stannous can go bad. if you keep a piece of metallic tin and (make sure to keep it acidic) and air tight it will last a little longer (do not dilute), all the information is here you just need to study it.

It lasts for months and months stored with a little common sense, let's not get into instilling fear into people here please.

Cool, airtight, and excess tin are what I am doing.

 

[Phishin_ca]

Read up on stannous chloride. Stannous can go bad. if you keep a piece of metallic tin and (make sure to keep it acidic) and air tight it will last a little longer (do not dilute), all the information is here you just need to study it.

It lasts for months and months stored with a little common sense, let's not get into instilling fear into people here please.

:?:

Stannous can go bad. You keep tin in it and air tight to make it last longer. How is butcher's post "instilling fear"?

Dave

Dave, it may be just the way he read it. I appreciate both sides (Experiment/Study). After seeing how quick I can get a result from a little tin and a little HCl, I may even make some fresh for every experiment for now. I have dated the vial, and I kind of want to see how the reaction changes as the solution ages. Four tests on a spot plate... One old, one new, on the control solution and my current project.

Shawn

 

[upcyclist]

After seeing how quick I can get a result from a little tin and a little HCl, I may even make some fresh for every experiment for now. I have dated the vial, and I kind of want to see how the reaction changes as the solution ages. Four tests on a spot plate... One old, one new, on the control solution and my current project.

Shawn, that sounds like a great little experiment. As long as you don't mind using two drops of gold solution for every test, you can't lose. Keep us posted!