FIRST REFINING help me not make some rookie mistakes

[skinny]

im getting ready to do my first small batch refining of about 20 grams or so of material and i was hoping i can get some advice some of you wish you had gotten before you started ive done a fair amount of research but im still sure to experience some mishaps what should i look out for what are the absolutely dont do's and some helpful hints to get it done right and efficiently

my plan is simple at the moment.
calculate how much material i have and inquart it to 6k gold alloy using sterling silver.
dissolve silver and base metals with nitric acid boils until solution is clear
filter rinse and then use sulfuric acid to drop lead
filter rinse
do an aqua regia dissolve on the remaining gold sponge
filter and then precipitate and repeat aqua regia for a second refine.

 

[Martijn]

im getting ready to do my first small batch refining of about 20 grams or so of material and i was hoping i can get some advice some of you wish you had gotten before you started ive done a fair amount of research but im still sure to experience some mishaps what should i look out for what are the absolutely dont do's and some helpful hints to get it done right and efficiently

Define material.

 

[skinny]

karat scrap gold and sterling silver to inquart

 

[4metals]

I guess you really do not like to search the forum, even though your questions have all been answered many times before.

This thread, easily found in the library, will explain it sufficiently.

 

[skinny]

thank you

 

[Shark]

im getting ready to do my first small batch refining of about 20 grams or so of material and i was hoping i can get some advice some of you wish you had gotten before you started ive done a fair amount of research but im still sure to experience some mishaps what should i look out for what are the absolutely dont do's and some helpful hints to get it done right and efficiently

A better way to get answers would be to give us a plan all laid out on how you plan to go about it. Then members could examine it, and point out potential flaws. A lack of input can never give you a detailed answer.

My answer, don’t pour your shot to fast or in to small of container.

 

[skinny]

A better way to get answers would be to give us a plan all laid out on how you plan to go about it. Then members could examine it, and point out potential flaws. A lack of input can never give you a detailed answer.

My answer, don’t pour your shot to fast or in to small of container.

i can understand that i guess my plan is where i can use this advice i dont have exact measurements or anything ready to lay out i was just trying to gather as much information to not hurt myself as i could. things like dont add water to acid add the acid to water or add the nitric slowly to the hydrochloric to prevent a runaway reaction. stuff along those lines.

my plan is simple at the moment.
calculate how much material i have and inquart it to 6k gold alloy using sterling silver.
dissolve silver and base metals with nitric acid boils until solution is clear
filter rinse and then use sulfuric acid to drop lead
filter rinse
do an aqua regia dissolve on the remaining gold sponge
filter and then precipitate and repeat aqua regia for a second refine.

 

[skinny]

I guess you really do not like to search the forum, even though your questions have all been answered many times before.

This thread, easily found in the library, will explain it sufficiently.

im not sure why your so rude about it i dont know if youve dug through the forums your self recently but there are hundreds of thousands of threads so forgive me sir for wanting to consolidate some of the answers i was looking for here while doing my research. theres alot to read and i dont yet have specific questions alot im gonna have to learn from trial and error what i was looking for was maybe a few lessons from those who have already learned them and broadly. there is alot of language and chemistry here i dont yet fully understand so some of the answers i may need dont stick out to me. yes i am a beginner and i am posting in the beginners section yet somehow i feel like i dont belong here and cant post my own questions thoughts or results. the next guy was atleast kind about letting me know how to improve my post frankly your a bit rude i appreciate the link but that doesnt answer anything for me that particular thread is stuff i already understand. ill be sure to look harder before i post anything further or specific or ill go else where to discuss.

 

[BGDOCK]

Skinny hey man relax .
Just don’t rush it research for a couple weeks , study some .
your gold will still be there .
It may sound like an easy process but until you get comfortable with your techniques and methods I would tread lightly .
I found that it’s is preferred that you try to research and not be spoon fed .
Have you refined anything yet.
Are you comfortable using torches and acids yet .
I ask these question because I don’t know your back ground and would like to help you .
Have you practiced with silver refining yet ?

Jeff

 

[4metals]

To be successful at refining you need one of two things. Enough money to purchase professionally made scrubbers and hoods so you can set up safely, or an ability to follow the instructions on threads that have been written many times and fabricate your own equipment. From the equipment built by members who have shared photo's, the second ability seems to be prevalent.

You may think my response was rude, and I accept that, but I think asking simple questions when you have been given links to threads that answer those questions is also rude. Those that have learned to refine on this forum, and there are many, have shown the initiative to do the work and ask questions when they get stuck or have questionable results.

You haven't been here a week yet, if you stay and do the work to learn, you will be successful. We gave up spoon feeding members years ago. If an established member who has participated here and proven his or her abilities asks a question I will go to my wits end to answer completely and thoroughly, because members like that deserve it. You can join the club, but first you have to do the work.

 

[ssmontecarlo]

I have a question...then I'm gonna read the link 4metals posted.
Is it possible while melting gold filled items with copper, in a ceramic crucible, a person can melt the crucible. And at the time you pour the molten gold filled items/ copper wire into a metal bucket with water, to make " corn flakes" the melted crucible also goes into the bucket of water...EXPLODING!!. Yes I had this happen to me before. This may not be the correct forum to ask this question. Fortunately all I lost was the material...no bodily harm or loss of property. PPE is a must..AT ALL TIMES. Be safe.

 

[BGDOCK]

Anything is possible
I have dropped molds and a melting dish
In water . They must be dried out completely .
The copper probably expanded quickly I don’t think it pours nicely into water .

“ Time for more coffee “

 

[ssmontecarlo]

I guess you really do not like to search the forum, even though your questions have all been answered many times before.

This thread, easily found in the library, will explain it sufficiently.

Interesting read.

 

[Shark]

I spent the better part of three years reading before I attempted any refining. I did collect material and broke it down and made it ready as I studied. That time was well spent by the time I started using acids as I didn’t have too many questions to ask. Even then it took me a year to produce 10 grams of mediocre quality gold.

 

[minero74]

Study is the Key to be successful in refining.

New member in refining Need to read Hooke book and is free here in the forum .

why reading because Hooke Book?
Because then You will have a good foundation
and will have a good idea of what You will doing.

Then many members with lot experience in refining ,here in the forum can Help You.
with many of your question.

 

[anachronism]

I spent the better part of three years reading before I attempted any refining. I did collect material and broke it down and made it ready as I studied. That time was well spent by the time I started using acids as I didn’t have too many questions to ask. Even then it took me a year to produce 10 grams of mediocre quality gold.

Heck no - I dove straight into the nox ........

 

[4metals]

Heck no - I dove straight into the nox ........

Good thing you didn’t inhale! If you had we might not have your British Humor to enlighten our days.

 

[ssmontecarlo]

Study is the Key to be successful in refining.

New member in refining Need to read Hooke book and is free here in the forum .

why reading because Hooke Book?
Because then You will have a good foundation
and will have a good idea of what You will doing.

Then many members with lot experience in refining ,here in the forum can Help You.
with many of your question.

I have read Hoke book years ago..and always reading post. I have read, a person stated they would not pour the molten mixture of metals out of a crucible, directly into a bucket of water. Instead, they would pour it onto a clean peice of plate steel, and then it would run down the plate steel, into the bucket of water.
I'm still looking for information in regards to " melting" the actual crucible while inquarting gold filled items with copper. The melted silica/ ceramic crucible, combined with the molten metals, when poured into a metal bucket, containing water, caused this violent reaction/ explosion...I haven't tried to inquart any gold filled items since then...be safe.

 

[Shark]

A piece of wet wood would be preferred over steel plate as molten gold will alloy with steel if something goes wrong. Pouring directly to water will work if the volume is large enough and the pour is slow. Pouring to a block of ice in water will work, again with a pour that is not over fast.

I have never seen a crucible melt and I have melted gold with oxygen/acetylene. I once heated a broken crucible with oxygen/acetylene to remove slags and recover values. That crucible took all the heat I could get from that torch. If it is possible to melt one under normal refining conditions I be interested in knowing how it happens.

 

[skinny]

To be successful at refining you need one of two things. Enough money to purchase professionally made scrubbers and hoods so you can set up safely, or an ability to follow the instructions on threads that have been written many times and fabricate your own equipment. From the equipment built by members who have shared photo's, the second ability seems to be prevalent.

You may think my response was rude, and I accept that, but I think asking simple questions when you have been given links to threads that answer those questions is also rude. Those that have learned to refine on this forum, and there are many, have shown the initiative to do the work and ask questions when they get stuck or have questionable results.

You haven't been here a week yet, if you stay and do the work to learn, you will be successful. We gave up spoon feeding members years ago. If an established member who has participated here and proven his or her abilities asks a question I will go to my wits end to answer completely and thoroughly, because members like that deserve it. You can join the club, but first you have to do the work.

that is a fair reply and i respect that. i do not mean to be rude by asking the things i did but i wish it was easier to sort through all of these threads. i dont want you to think i didnt look through them once you posted them i did and learned alot exactly as you wanted but with out your link to it i likely wouldnt have found it and for just that reason im glad i asked a stupid question.

i have the upmost respect for the refiners and the experience here and im aspiring to make it to that level i may have only joined a week ago but ive been in metals for almost a decade and have been studying what i can digest of refining for about 2 months. i know thats not long but i deserve a little more credit than a week of understanding. im not educated i didnt take advanced mathematics or chemistry so im dumb as most would probably say but im willing to learn. i will do better about searching for material and including more relevant information when i make or reply to a post that seems to be my biggest issue is im not tackling a specific curiosity or plan. so moving forward i will do so. i dont want to be abrasive with you or anyone else here i want to be a student. with that said i want to do exactly as many of you here have and slowly break in to the science first by collecting material and building out a lab and then introducing complicated chemistry later.
i dont want to be spoon fed. i want to be shovel fed. im a stay at home dad trying to make ends meet with my wife and two kids and i have nothing to apply my mind and energy to im an aggressive learner and slowing down is already hard but i want to learn as much as possible.

all that aside seeing your drawing of the scrubber and venturi pump really connected some dots. and your response to my illiterate use of terms was also valuable and i appreciate that. im going to be looking in to how to best construct the scrubber and fume hood and try to mend both proper equipment and diy solutions and i hope i can call on your help past or present to get it done. im sorry for all this and the confrontation from here on out its all science.