The word is NOT harsh. I meant it to the letter.. and picked my words carefully. The point I've tried to make is the person SHOULD be learning something, not asking questions that would not be asked had they learned what they were told to learn. Why is it a reader can't read text in a book, but, instead, make demands of others to restate that which has been stated time and again, and is already at their disposal?stevem4323 said:the word fool is a bit harsh if you are learning anything new then you are not a fool
4metals said:I'd like to answer this from the perspective of one who is asked a lot of questions, more in PM than on the forum but questions none the less. I come to this profession as a chemist but don't hold that against me. I did not have the good fortune of reading Hoke for many years after I was refining on a large scale. The fact that this forum embraces her teachings is refreshing, and if you take the time to read the book you will have the ability to ask questions from a position of knowledge rather than from a position of oblivion. Harold has helped many members learn this trade, he learned from the ground up, without a forum and I applaud his accomplishment. I also understand his frustration when people come here expecting answers without doing the work. Harold may call these people fools, honestly in person I wouldn't be expressing it that nice!
But I'm not posting this to discuss the merits of reading Hoke, I would like to post an observation I've made from my tenure here as a member and now as a moderator. The members who do their refining successfully and profitably have done the hard work, they have read through the threads and sorted out the small talk and benefited from numerous posts and emerged as decent technicians. I have seen many come and ask questions rather than do the work, they come and they go but the ones that stay have done the work and, for most, it has paid off. I know that when a member posts an intelligent question which comes from obvious experience, his or her question will be answered and that member will not be told to go read the book. But the people who answer the questions get tired, how many times can a person be asked the same questions before getting "burnt out"?
I think the amazing fact that a good number of our members came here knowing little of the art of refining and can now talk intelligently on the subject, and it is all because they did the work. So we know that this forum is a place where anyone can come and receive a FREE education which, to my knowledge, is not available anywhere else. You wouldn't walk into a college and a day later go ask for your diploma, so you cannot expect to come here and expect to have your hand held. Do the work and it will pay off! And there are members who participate on this forum every day who can verify this. Maybe they should weigh in.
Yes---I agree. I think some can gain the knowledge without reading Hoke. One of the ways they try to do that is by asking stupid questions, which are stupid because they refuse to take the time to learn the basics. That's what we keep getting here, time and again. It's as simple as this. If you can't grasp what Hoke teaches, what makes you think you can learn it by other means? She wrote in such a manner that a fool can learn (I'm living proof), so what magical thing do you suppose would come to the fore by ignoring what she has tried to express in layman terms? You don't understand what she teaches? Read it again, and this time try doing the exercises she recommends. Do them exactly as she suggests, with your book in one hand and the chemicals in the other. Do it a line at a time. If you can't do them, what makes you think you can learn to refine?kkmonte said:I understand what you guys mean, however I do sometimes see the other side of it also. Everyone was a newb at one point, some newb's read and understand hoke alot better then others, others i'm sure never even read hoke. I think it's entirely possible to read this forum regularly, buy laser steve's dvd's, etc. and probably learn 90%+ of what is in hoke. Even though i'll probably get some grief, I think it's entirely possible to be able to refine either not having read all of hoke or if your comprehension isn't that good, then reading it but not understanding it.
Welcome back malfeces. I've seen from some of your other recent posts that you have, indeed, been studying hard.When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years.
That is a fact. That is a fact.Even if you do not understand what you are reading you will at a later date and then you will look back and see how important to you that then insignificant piece of information seemed.
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